4g64 for 03?
Originally posted by StreetLancer
Again, when talking about the 4G64, you may as well be asking about bolting in an Evo engine.
Why?
4 = 4 Cylinders
G = Generation
6 = Block Family
* = variation
Now, the 4G63 will share the same block as the 4G64. In many ways, the 4G64 is a higher displacement, SOHC, Naturally aspirated 4G63. Obviously, there are numerous tuning differences, but, for the most part, that's your answer. Like I said previously, you would probably do better to find a 4G63 from a FWD DSM, and bolt that in. It would probably be about the same amount (outrageous, in other words), and garner better results.
We are not Honda.
We do not just bolt in. It goes beyond engine mounts. It goes to transmissions, differentials, axles, hub assemblies, suspensions... How much further should I go? It's not as simple as sliding out a 4G94 and sliding in a 4G63. It's just not. Also, I believe bahamut had said at one time that even within the same cars and generations, it is difficult to switch engines. Mitsu has been known to change transmission rotations, starter locations, etc. So, in other words, can it be done? YES. Is it the best/most cost effective thing to do? Absolutely not.
Again, when talking about the 4G64, you may as well be asking about bolting in an Evo engine.
Why?
4 = 4 Cylinders
G = Generation
6 = Block Family
* = variation
Now, the 4G63 will share the same block as the 4G64. In many ways, the 4G64 is a higher displacement, SOHC, Naturally aspirated 4G63. Obviously, there are numerous tuning differences, but, for the most part, that's your answer. Like I said previously, you would probably do better to find a 4G63 from a FWD DSM, and bolt that in. It would probably be about the same amount (outrageous, in other words), and garner better results.
We are not Honda.
We do not just bolt in. It goes beyond engine mounts. It goes to transmissions, differentials, axles, hub assemblies, suspensions... How much further should I go? It's not as simple as sliding out a 4G94 and sliding in a 4G63. It's just not. Also, I believe bahamut had said at one time that even within the same cars and generations, it is difficult to switch engines. Mitsu has been known to change transmission rotations, starter locations, etc. So, in other words, can it be done? YES. Is it the best/most cost effective thing to do? Absolutely not.
2nd(wiring is so similar between the 2 i'm allmost positive that you could use your factory Lancer Harness(preferably the manual harness share the most simularities IE. Mitsu has been using extremly similar harness for the 4G93,4G94,4G64 since the mirage (in manual form)...Auto harness share most simularities from 02 Mirages to currnet lancers...at any rate the bay of the lancer is much larger than the Mirage and the 4G64 has been placed in our bay so you should have no troubles with that either...the only this you may need when swapping this motor is...(POSSIBLY New axels) you may be able to use evo axles, eclipse axles etc...and you may need to rework your exhaust aft of the downpipe...but i also believe that will mount up perfectly as it had for me when i did my swap...hope this helps someone
-Adam
thanks man...yea i'm not sure if i'm gonna do SDS or swap the motor yet again...this time for Evo4...i'm probably doing Evo4...thanks...and yes i'm sure the intake manifold will bolt up...if i'm not mistaken its smaller than that on the 4G94...but dont quote me on that...but again...the motor fits in the mirage with no problems so i'm sure you will have more clearence than that...either way...both chassy's(sp) were designed to holster the 4G6x series engines (ie. evo, and ralliart/mivec)
one of you should go for it...i'm sure your going to find that it takes very little effort...if i had a lancer i would surely place the 4G64 in it...
-Adam
one of you should go for it...i'm sure your going to find that it takes very little effort...if i had a lancer i would surely place the 4G64 in it...
-Adam
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From: TB, FL
When Nick did his G64 swap into his DE mirage, the engine had an immobilzier. To bypass it, he used a G93 ecu, and the plugs are different than a lancer, except the post cali spec years.
A G93 ECU has 4 inline prongs. There is no way the lancer guys will change their ecu plugs to a mirage standard (looks similar to the 3kGT). To get an immoblizer, it's a dealer only item. Be prepared to get hyper raped on such device.
BTW: be prepared to have a second car. Nick lost about 1.5 to 2 years hybriding into his car.
A G93 ECU has 4 inline prongs. There is no way the lancer guys will change their ecu plugs to a mirage standard (looks similar to the 3kGT). To get an immoblizer, it's a dealer only item. Be prepared to get hyper raped on such device.
BTW: be prepared to have a second car. Nick lost about 1.5 to 2 years hybriding into his car.
Last edited by bahamut; Mar 24, 2004 at 06:24 PM.
that is why i stresssed that you need to have a manual car...the auto harness are different in certain aspect pertainnig to different cars...and i've talked with LB myself...the problems he had when swaping were allmost identical to mine...however he used controllers on top of his G93 Ecu to get the system up and running(notsure what)...i still believe that the harness are the same because based on the problems we both had they reviel that the harness works in near the same matter as it has in all manual cars since the mirage 1.8 was released in 1997...i think and eclipse 2000-up should be using the same connectors/wiring set up as the 2.0 4G94...and if you wanted to be 100% sure...all you would need to do is get the Eclipse 2.4 wiring Schematics and the 2.0 Lancer Schematics and compare the 2...i'm sure after doing so that you will find them to be the same or extremely close to it...just as i did when i compared the 1.8-2.0 when i did my swap... i could go more in depth as to which problems we both had concering both our swaps to justify my reasoning if anyone would like to hear that...
-Adam
-Adam
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From: 909insoCaL n da 808state
go on ahead...state your problems ... this is something tat i will be looking into as time passes and money is earned...what are going to be the hardest things to do with this swap....is that true...1-2 years?....will it realy rake that long?....
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: TB, FL
The G64 into the mirage . . . motor mounts are all the same, except the tranny. It's off about 1-2 inches or so.
Nick took that long, because he had some finacial difficulty stemming from being the first person doing this stuff in the whole world. He did all the R&D, subcontract some work, and buying another set of engine and tranny from an unexpected complication. Little setup backs adds up a lot in the end. Lancer guys should expect half of it.
The immoblizer is the key to everything. Otherwise, it won't start.
Adam,
how long your car was down for the swap? About 3-6 wks??
Nick took that long, because he had some finacial difficulty stemming from being the first person doing this stuff in the whole world. He did all the R&D, subcontract some work, and buying another set of engine and tranny from an unexpected complication. Little setup backs adds up a lot in the end. Lancer guys should expect half of it.
The immoblizer is the key to everything. Otherwise, it won't start.
Adam,
how long your car was down for the swap? About 3-6 wks??
well i'm doing the 4G63 swap just to let everyone know...again...and it is taking me so long because you can only use an evo 4+ motor and they are very hard to find...but i picked up a whole front clip (lucky me) since you do have to change everything...and in a few months i'll let you guys know how everything went and how much it ended up costing.
oh yeah...i'm keeping it FWD..which will be hard to do..but its a lot cheaper then converting to AWD.
oh yeah...i'm keeping it FWD..which will be hard to do..but its a lot cheaper then converting to AWD.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: TB, FL
Zlancer,
That's great that you are using old school Evo 4 motor. Make sure you get pics.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/nchant
Here's one of our members in NZ w/ an E5 motor. He should give you a hand in experience wise.
Good luck.
That's great that you are using old school Evo 4 motor. Make sure you get pics.
http://www.cardomain.com/id/nchant
Here's one of our members in NZ w/ an E5 motor. He should give you a hand in experience wise.
Good luck.
Last edited by bahamut; Dec 2, 2005 at 03:12 PM.
my swap took me 2 weeks...only because i had an unexpected problem after we got everything all assembled...assembly took about 5-6 hours...mostly because the motor needed a slight rebuild...
Problems
1. Cam Sensor ( I used the 1.8, needed the 2.0) they look the same but they are not
2. Ecu ( thought the 1.8 ecu would run) nope
3. Knock Sensor (still havnt put it in) Car runs great without it
4. Tach (only saw this problem on our cars because this was part of the wiring changed with the new lancer) the tach instead of being grounded at the Body is grounded at the ECU...causes the tach to jump eratically, Autometer guage fixes that becuase it has a second seperate ground wont see this problem on your lancer
5. Fans opperate opposite to what they are supposed to...IE fan is running when car starts when its supposed to be off for warm up...when A/C is activated the fans kick off, however the fan allways runs and the car does not overheat...some may see this as a good thing...its caused because the fan relays are somewhat reversed in the new eclipses and lancers...again wont see this problem in the lancer
other than that the Motor droped directly in...Downpipe Matched Directly, Axels of corse worked because i used the same trans, and all the mount matched as well...you will be able to use all your pre-existing accessories as well since the general layout is exactly the same...if i knew all the things then that i do now i could have most certainly had the car up and running within a day for certain....also fuel lines throttle cables, etc all worked out the same...of corse the 4G94 is basically a Direct Upgrade from the 4G93...so I assumed that most things would workuot well...the 4G64 only seems like such an easy swap because of the similarities i found while talking with LB who did the G64 swap...i really do think that putting the motor in the lancer would be easy tho...and i suppose u may need to find another Trans mount if it really is the case that it sits 1"-2" off from the factory mount...i'm sure you can find something tho...
-Adam
Problems
1. Cam Sensor ( I used the 1.8, needed the 2.0) they look the same but they are not
2. Ecu ( thought the 1.8 ecu would run) nope
3. Knock Sensor (still havnt put it in) Car runs great without it
4. Tach (only saw this problem on our cars because this was part of the wiring changed with the new lancer) the tach instead of being grounded at the Body is grounded at the ECU...causes the tach to jump eratically, Autometer guage fixes that becuase it has a second seperate ground wont see this problem on your lancer
5. Fans opperate opposite to what they are supposed to...IE fan is running when car starts when its supposed to be off for warm up...when A/C is activated the fans kick off, however the fan allways runs and the car does not overheat...some may see this as a good thing...its caused because the fan relays are somewhat reversed in the new eclipses and lancers...again wont see this problem in the lancer
other than that the Motor droped directly in...Downpipe Matched Directly, Axels of corse worked because i used the same trans, and all the mount matched as well...you will be able to use all your pre-existing accessories as well since the general layout is exactly the same...if i knew all the things then that i do now i could have most certainly had the car up and running within a day for certain....also fuel lines throttle cables, etc all worked out the same...of corse the 4G94 is basically a Direct Upgrade from the 4G93...so I assumed that most things would workuot well...the 4G64 only seems like such an easy swap because of the similarities i found while talking with LB who did the G64 swap...i really do think that putting the motor in the lancer would be easy tho...and i suppose u may need to find another Trans mount if it really is the case that it sits 1"-2" off from the factory mount...i'm sure you can find something tho...
-Adam