Going to a Scion Fr-s from an Evox?
Feb 5, 2013, 04:16 PM
#31
Look at the HP. An FRS is what, 200 HP? A Miata is 167. The two are going to be very similar. I'm pretty sure the FRS/BRZ was put up against a Miata in a Car and Driver/Road and Track review and came out quite well. I'll see if I can find it.
Edit: Here it is. BRZ was first.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...enesis-coupe-1
Edit: Here it is. BRZ was first.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...enesis-coupe-1
Feb 8, 2013, 11:07 AM
#33
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: new york city
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I favor the look of the Subaru version of the car.
But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Why would you even consider downgrading to such a vehicle? Because youve never had a small RWD vehicle? Let me possibly swade you from making your biggest mistake of your youth beside getting your sister pregnant.
Don't trade your Evolution first and foremost. You will regret this move. As someone said before you'll quickly lose interest in the lack of power and limitations of the RWD layout. Any layout besides AWD to be clear.
If you want a RWD car to play with, like myself, purchase a 240sx. Excellently balanced vehicle. About the same size and weights less. Also the lack of driver assisted functions give you a REAL driving experience. And if the power isn't enough which it certainly isn't with the stock KA24DE/E there are countless options. CA18DET, RB20/25/26/30, SR20DET, 2GZGTE, LS1, 13B, VQ, etc. Ahh, so much fun I had with mine. I .shoul've never sold it. In fa t, I'm actually looking to purchase another 240sx soon possibly with the RB25DET swap. You can also have an RX7, Miata, older M3 etc. Great cars out there just. I dont see the purpose of spending 24k for the FRS/BRZ.
But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Why would you even consider downgrading to such a vehicle? Because youve never had a small RWD vehicle? Let me possibly swade you from making your biggest mistake of your youth beside getting your sister pregnant.
Don't trade your Evolution first and foremost. You will regret this move. As someone said before you'll quickly lose interest in the lack of power and limitations of the RWD layout. Any layout besides AWD to be clear.
If you want a RWD car to play with, like myself, purchase a 240sx. Excellently balanced vehicle. About the same size and weights less. Also the lack of driver assisted functions give you a REAL driving experience. And if the power isn't enough which it certainly isn't with the stock KA24DE/E there are countless options. CA18DET, RB20/25/26/30, SR20DET, 2GZGTE, LS1, 13B, VQ, etc. Ahh, so much fun I had with mine. I .shoul've never sold it. In fa t, I'm actually looking to purchase another 240sx soon possibly with the RB25DET swap. You can also have an RX7, Miata, older M3 etc. Great cars out there just. I dont see the purpose of spending 24k for the FRS/BRZ.
Feb 8, 2013, 11:42 AM
#34
I favor the look of the Subaru version of the car.
But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Why would you even consider downgrading to such a vehicle? Because youve never had a small RWD vehicle? Let me possibly swade you from making your biggest mistake of your youth beside getting your sister pregnant.
Don't trade your Evolution first and foremost. You will regret this move. As someone said before you'll quickly lose interest in the lack of power and limitations of the RWD layout. Any layout besides AWD to be clear.
If you want a RWD car to play with, like myself, purchase a 240sx. Excellently balanced vehicle. About the same size and weights less. Also the lack of driver assisted functions give you a REAL driving experience. And if the power isn't enough which it certainly isn't with the stock KA24DE/E there are countless options. CA18DET, RB20/25/26/30, SR20DET, 2GZGTE, LS1, 13B, VQ, etc. Ahh, so much fun I had with mine. I .shoul've never sold it. In fa t, I'm actually looking to purchase another 240sx soon possibly with the RB25DET swap. You can also have an RX7, Miata, older M3 etc. Great cars out there just. I dont see the purpose of spending 24k for the FRS/BRZ.
But that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Why would you even consider downgrading to such a vehicle? Because youve never had a small RWD vehicle? Let me possibly swade you from making your biggest mistake of your youth beside getting your sister pregnant.
Don't trade your Evolution first and foremost. You will regret this move. As someone said before you'll quickly lose interest in the lack of power and limitations of the RWD layout. Any layout besides AWD to be clear.
If you want a RWD car to play with, like myself, purchase a 240sx. Excellently balanced vehicle. About the same size and weights less. Also the lack of driver assisted functions give you a REAL driving experience. And if the power isn't enough which it certainly isn't with the stock KA24DE/E there are countless options. CA18DET, RB20/25/26/30, SR20DET, 2GZGTE, LS1, 13B, VQ, etc. Ahh, so much fun I had with mine. I .shoul've never sold it. In fa t, I'm actually looking to purchase another 240sx soon possibly with the RB25DET swap. You can also have an RX7, Miata, older M3 etc. Great cars out there just. I dont see the purpose of spending 24k for the FRS/BRZ.
Feb 9, 2013, 06:25 AM
#35
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: new york city
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lols. I really don't get people recommending the Miata, which at it's earliest point had just over 100 HP, while dismissing the FRS/BRZ as underpowered. The power to weight ratio is very similar. I find it hilarious when people who own Evos or STIs, two of the most notorious "cheater" cars out there, argue that the FRS/BRZ has too many driver aids.
And didn't my boy nemsin clearly make the argument with proof for the miata?
And lastly the statement about cheater cars is just a ridiculous argument. The driving aids are not even a choice anymore thanks to DOT. And I can see why they would equip 300hp turbo high performance vehicles with "cheater" aids. But can we justify a 200hp NA vehicle?
Don't get me wrong I like the BRZ. What I will never agree with is paying $25,495(starting) for such a car or trade my Evo, which is actually worth the money, just to jump on the RWD wagon as the OP stated.
Last edited by tellme718; Feb 9, 2013 at 06:30 AM.
Feb 9, 2013, 08:02 AM
#36
Because it can be had for a fifth of the price...derp. Additionally I threw several other cars. Forgot to even mention the AE86, the FRS' predecessor. And who cares about how much power it comes with out the factory. These days power can be made by many alternatives. What I don't agree with is paying so much money for the car.
And didn't my boy nemsin clearly make the argument with proof for the miata?
And lastly the statement about cheater cars is just a ridiculous argument. The driving aids are not even a choice anymore thanks to DOT. And I can see why they would equip 300hp turbo high performance vehicles with "cheater" aids. But can we justify a 200hp NA vehicle?
Don't get me wrong I like the BRZ. What I will never agree with is paying $25,495(starting) for such a car or trade my Evo, which is actually worth the money, just to jump on the RWD wagon as the OP stated.
And didn't my boy nemsin clearly make the argument with proof for the miata?
And lastly the statement about cheater cars is just a ridiculous argument. The driving aids are not even a choice anymore thanks to DOT. And I can see why they would equip 300hp turbo high performance vehicles with "cheater" aids. But can we justify a 200hp NA vehicle?
Don't get me wrong I like the BRZ. What I will never agree with is paying $25,495(starting) for such a car or trade my Evo, which is actually worth the money, just to jump on the RWD wagon as the OP stated.
. If they started right at $20,xxx it would be more feasible why people would buy them. There are so many options new and used wise it just doesn't make sense at the price point imo. S2000's have come down a bit and look 1,000,000 times better with a hardtop than the frs/brz.
Feb 9, 2013, 11:56 AM
#38
/rant
Feb 10, 2013, 03:19 AM
#41
Newbie
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The FRS/BRZ is very well priced when you take a look at its competition (Sporty RWD sub-$30K cars)
(all MSRP prices, destination charges included)
For the hell of it, let's take a look at the prices of some sporty FWD drive cars nowadays:
Civic Si Coupe - $23,305
Mini Cooper S - $25,450
Golf GTI - $24,790
Focus ST - $24,495
Veloster Turbo $22,895
The FRS/BRZ sure is overpriced... There's no way in hell this car was going to be 22-23k aka Civic Si territory. A lightweight, RWD sports car that was designed from the ground up for $25k sounds pretty fair to me.
(all MSRP prices, destination charges included)
- Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T - $25,145
(doesn't come with a limited slip diff unless you get the R-Spec which is $27,395, huge negative imo) - MX-5 Miata Soft-top - $24,515
- Mustang V6 - $22,995
- FRS - $25,255
- BRZ Premium - $26,265
(HIDS & Navigation standard) - BRZ Limited - $28,265
(Adds keyless entry/start, foglights, leather/alcantara seats, dual auto climate control)
For the hell of it, let's take a look at the prices of some sporty FWD drive cars nowadays:
Civic Si Coupe - $23,305
Mini Cooper S - $25,450
Golf GTI - $24,790
Focus ST - $24,495
Veloster Turbo $22,895
The FRS/BRZ sure is overpriced... There's no way in hell this car was going to be 22-23k aka Civic Si territory. A lightweight, RWD sports car that was designed from the ground up for $25k sounds pretty fair to me.
Feb 10, 2013, 06:09 AM
#42
Toyota had a weight problem with the old Supra. Sure, the motor more than made up for that, but a weight problem is still a weight problem. Ignoring the fact that people loved the power potential of the Supra, Toyota went in completely the opposite direction with the FR-S. Uh...thanks? There is a very low power potential in the FR-S. Sure, it is now very light...but a power problem is still a power problem. A bit of compromise would have been nice. I guess we didn't learn much from the first go-round. If I were at all interested in this car, I could at least wait for more information to surface regarding the Subaru STi version of this car. Even then, I am not completely holding my breath. I have been sorely disappointed with Subaru out-of-the-box power potentials in the past (hence why I drive....and Evo).
After much thought, I decided that a used GTO is a much better alternative to the Evo, if RWD is really what you are after. I found a 2006 GTO 6.0L with 11k miles for $23k. That is a car where the aftermarket is flooded with options. The GTO can skid around corners like an FR-S....because GM/Holden gave it a set of actual *****. Plus, it doesn't look like complete ***.
Feb 10, 2013, 06:19 AM
#43
Disclaimer: All claims made were done with very little sleep and slightly slurred wording. Before butthurt firmly takes hold, realize that all of the previous post is opinion. My main concern with my car is that the motor will not take abuse at the track for a sustained period of time. I would think twice about buying another 4-cylinder engine and assume that most are either now or will be later concerned with the exact same thing. If you aren't, have at the FR-S. I caution you not to touch much on the motor. I wouldn't.
Feb 10, 2013, 07:48 AM
#44
Eh, I don't know about all that. I have yet to see an FR-S touch a lap time laid down by a competent MX5 driver. That being said, I have a major problem with the FR-S.
Toyota had a weight problem with the old Supra. Sure, the motor more than made up for that, but a weight problem is still a weight problem. Ignoring the fact that people loved the power potential of the Supra, Toyota went in completely the opposite direction with the FR-S. Uh...thanks? There is a very low power potential in the FR-S. Sure, it is now very light...but a power problem is still a power problem. A bit of compromise would have been nice. I guess we didn't learn much from the first go-round. If I were at all interested in this car, I could at least wait for more information to surface regarding the Subaru STi version of this car. Even then, I am not completely holding my breath. I have been sorely disappointed with Subaru out-of-the-box power potentials in the past (hence why I drive....and Evo).
After much thought, I decided that a used GTO is a much better alternative to the Evo, if RWD is really what you are after. I found a 2006 GTO 6.0L with 11k miles for $23k. That is a car where the aftermarket is flooded with options. The GTO can skid around corners like an FR-S....because GM/Holden gave it a set of actual *****. Plus, it doesn't look like complete ***.
Toyota had a weight problem with the old Supra. Sure, the motor more than made up for that, but a weight problem is still a weight problem. Ignoring the fact that people loved the power potential of the Supra, Toyota went in completely the opposite direction with the FR-S. Uh...thanks? There is a very low power potential in the FR-S. Sure, it is now very light...but a power problem is still a power problem. A bit of compromise would have been nice. I guess we didn't learn much from the first go-round. If I were at all interested in this car, I could at least wait for more information to surface regarding the Subaru STi version of this car. Even then, I am not completely holding my breath. I have been sorely disappointed with Subaru out-of-the-box power potentials in the past (hence why I drive....and Evo).
After much thought, I decided that a used GTO is a much better alternative to the Evo, if RWD is really what you are after. I found a 2006 GTO 6.0L with 11k miles for $23k. That is a car where the aftermarket is flooded with options. The GTO can skid around corners like an FR-S....because GM/Holden gave it a set of actual *****. Plus, it doesn't look like complete ***.
STi variant would be pretty cool to look at i'm sure but I'm so done with Subaru and their crappy pistons/ringlands. Let's not forget about the dangerous tune that comes stock on most wrx's and STi's.
Feb 10, 2013, 08:07 AM
#45
EvoM Community Team Leader
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: chicago, michigan, arkansas
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
spoiler alert, the brz is a disappointment. I guess those mag writers have never driven an evo? just get the wrx if it is in your price range and want to stay in the same company. frs is all fizz. sorry.