Notices
Motor Sports If you like rallying, road racing, autoxing, or track events, then this is the spot for you.

Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 03:48 PM
  #2791  
Lumpy Sticks's Avatar
Evolved Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 310
From: CA/AZ
For what its worth, if anyone wants it, I have an OMNI 4 bar that I am not using.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 04:03 PM
  #2792  
kyoo's Avatar
Evolved Member
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (29)
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,834
Likes: 283
From: US
i've had an omni 4 bar on this car for 8 years with no issue. had one on my previous evo for 7 years with no issue.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 04:35 PM
  #2793  
Biggiesacks's Avatar
EvoM Community Team Leader
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
Originally Posted by kaj
I'm wondering. My car hasn't started right nor ran well at low RPM, since putting in larger injectors and tuning.
I've worked with two different tuners, so just chalked it up to a mechanical issue.
If its truly mechanical then tuning will only at best be a bandaid. The usual stuff though should help you eliminate mechanical issues. Boost leak test, compression, spark plugs etc.

I'm no tuner, I only have experience with my own car but I'll share the methods that have worked for me. I went pretty off the reservation when I installed a peak & hold driver box onto my ECU, so I had to really figure things out for myself, no off the shelf settings / scalings were even close to working for me.

I had warm starting problems. It came down to too much fuel. What worked for me was zeroing out the primer pulse table because its resolution was inadequate, and I just worked with the starting fuel table. With that I was able to lower the pulse down enough to get good starting.

What I did for injectors / maf was to use the closed loop system to dial it in. This is pretty standard when dialing in injectors but just to the next level. First you work with the injectors. Using the traditional method you want to try and get your scaling / latency as close to LTFT Low/Mid 0 as you can. The different approach I took was to only focus on LTFT Mid changes at > 150 hertz. This is cruising at a decent speed range with the maf and will get a good stable signal. You can log LTFT Mid and 2byte Airflow Hz and when you go through the log you want to look for when LTFT mid changes. The Ariflow Hz just above the change is what it was sampling when it made the adjustment. So initially you want to try and focus on only the changes that take place above 150 along with LTFT Low and adjust your injector scaling / latency accordingly. Once you have your trims as good as you can get them with just injector scaling / latency its time to move over to the MAF Pulse correction. You do the same thing as above with the log except now you're watching for changes at all maf hz. Its going to be going through a bunch of different ranges and going up and down so what I did was ignore the change if it brought me closer to LTFT Mid 0 and adjusted the scaling if it moved me away from LTFT Mid 0. Do this enough, and you will eventually dial in all the different hz cells and have consistent fueling across all the maf airflow hz that you will hit during normal driving. The way to trigger LTFT Mid learning is to be at a constant speed, lift throttle to induce fuel cut, then apply throttle again, but only enough to maintain speed.

Hope that made some sense. I'm happy to elaborate more if anyone has Q's.

Reply
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 08:16 PM
  #2794  
kaj's Avatar
kaj
EvoM Community Team Leader
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (60)
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,634
Likes: 824
From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by Biggiesacks

I had warm starting problems. It came down to too much fuel. What worked for me was zeroing out the primer pulse table because its resolution was inadequate, and I just worked with the starting fuel table. With that I was able to lower the pulse down enough to get good starting.
.
that's exactly one of my problems. Warm start and throttle tip in at low speed/rpm (driving through parking lots is a nightmare. It's like I'm riding a bucking bronco).
I just drive around it.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 09:07 PM
  #2795  
Biggiesacks's Avatar
EvoM Community Team Leader
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
Originally Posted by kaj
that's exactly one of my problems. Warm start and throttle tip in at low speed/rpm (driving through parking lots is a nightmare. It's like I'm riding a bucking bronco).
I just drive around it.
I'm sure i don't have to tell you about the difficulty of giving tuning advice with nothing to go of and no first hand account of the issues. I will say though that the primer pulse table seems pretty neglected in most of the tuning guides / literature I've found. If I was you I'd start by pulling some fuel out of the top two temp (82c / 77c) cells and see if that helps your starting. Just to be clear I'm not talking about the starting fuel pulse but the initial primer pulse table.
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2021 | 09:17 PM
  #2796  
kaj's Avatar
kaj
EvoM Community Team Leader
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (60)
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,634
Likes: 824
From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by Biggiesacks
I'm sure i don't have to tell you about the difficulty of giving tuning advice with nothing to go of and no first hand account of the issues. I will say though that the primer pulse table seems pretty neglected in most of the tuning guides / literature I've found. If I was you I'd start by pulling some fuel out of the top two temp (82c / 77c) cells and see if that helps your starting. Just to be clear I'm not talking about the starting fuel pulse but the initial primer pulse table.
I'm actually on a locked FlexFuel map, so sadly can no longer fix anything myself. I just remembered that. Another reason I'm just dealing with it. 😂
I also just remembered my tuner asked me to send him trim logs. I'll do that first thing in the morning. Wish me luck!
p.S. Thanks for the advice! Will mention it.
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2021 | 08:57 AM
  #2797  
Biggiesacks's Avatar
EvoM Community Team Leader
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,690
Likes: 708
From: West Coast
Originally Posted by kaj
I'm actually on a locked FlexFuel map, so sadly can no longer fix anything myself. I just remembered that. Another reason I'm just dealing with it. 😂
I also just remembered my tuner asked me to send him trim logs. I'll do that first thing in the morning. Wish me luck!
p.S. Thanks for the advice! Will mention it.
Asking for trim logs is a good sign. Good luck
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2021 | 09:46 AM
  #2798  
LetsGetThisDone's Avatar
EvoM Guru
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 15,973
Likes: 1,629
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by kaj
I'm wondering. My car hasn't started right nor ran well at low RPM, since putting in larger injectors and tuning.
I've worked with two different tuners, so just chalked it up to a mechanical issue.
It's tune, you should have English Racing fix it. The problems you've described are identical to ones I had before going to Aaron at ER.
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2021 | 12:23 PM
  #2799  
kaj's Avatar
kaj
EvoM Community Team Leader
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (60)
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,634
Likes: 824
From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone
It's tune, you should have English Racing fix it. The problems you've described are identical to ones I had before going to Aaron at ER.
Maybe in the future. Time and $$$ permitting (on a bit of a budget at the moment).
But how annoying is that part-throttle crap? Literally is the reason I don't drive it around town much. Get it out on the track, though and
Reply
Old Jan 15, 2021 | 03:48 PM
  #2800  
kaj's Avatar
kaj
EvoM Community Team Leader
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (60)
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,634
Likes: 824
From: Fresno, CA
While waiting to buy a new slider, I fixed my old one. This bolt fell out. Replaced. Good as new!

Reply
Old Jan 18, 2021 | 02:46 PM
  #2801  
LetsGetThisDone's Avatar
EvoM Guru
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 15,973
Likes: 1,629
From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by kaj
Maybe in the future. Time and $$$ permitting (on a bit of a budget at the moment).
But how annoying is that part-throttle crap? Literally is the reason I don't drive it around town much. Get it out on the track, though and
It was no longer annoying after Aaron tuned my car correctly.
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2021 | 04:29 PM
  #2802  
kaj's Avatar
kaj
EvoM Community Team Leader
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (60)
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,634
Likes: 824
From: Fresno, CA
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone
It was no longer annoying after Aaron tuned my car correctly.
Well, yeah.
Reply
Old Jan 18, 2021 | 08:30 PM
  #2803  
Dallas J's Avatar
Thread Starter
EvoM Guru
Veteran: Army
Photogenic
Liked
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,969
Likes: 811
From: Portland, Or
Ive been swamped so hard with main work and machining I havent gotten a lot of progress last 2months other than getting trans on the ground to re-gear.

Why I need to change, 4.11 on an IX trans does 53.2/76.0 in 1st/2nd with the tall 315s at 8k. Even though I have 2.24l of fury, that extra 10% gearing really makes getting off the line tricky. The torque doesnt really come into play early enough not to really push the RPMs on launch and that gearing just isnt super clutch friendly. So 1.7s are hard to achieve and Im like 90% 1.8s which is pretty sad.

I had a grand plan for 4.31 and Evo8 1st, so 5% taller on all gears but OEM final 1st ratio for 48.3/72.5. Now that sounds pretty dang perfect. Except its a bastard trans that aint cheap to replace.

So going cheap and swapping back to 4.529 OEM final for a 48.3/69.0. Top of 2nd feels a bit sad there and If its anything like my old 2.3 setup, there isnt a course made I can hit redline. Well before I was only running revs to 7800 which is 67.3 and I can over rev the 2.2 to 8200 being more valve spring limited for 70.7.

So I'll still hit my 70mph marker but only just. I can always give myself more overrev room throwing beefier valvesprings/retainers than the basic GSC beehive upgrade but it should do for now. At least next year I'll have 10% more torque and 3mph earlier threshold which is going to be more useful on almost every course outside of some really long legged places.
Reply
Old Jan 19, 2021 | 06:04 AM
  #2804  
griceiv's Avatar
Evolved Member
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Liked
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 71
From: LA, CA
Originally Posted by Dallas J
Ive been swamped so hard with main work and machining I havent gotten a lot of progress last 2months other than getting trans on the ground to re-gear.

Why I need to change, 4.11 on an IX trans does 53.2/76.0 in 1st/2nd with the tall 315s at 8k. Even though I have 2.24l of fury, that extra 10% gearing really makes getting off the line tricky. The torque doesnt really come into play early enough not to really push the RPMs on launch and that gearing just isnt super clutch friendly. So 1.7s are hard to achieve and Im like 90% 1.8s which is pretty sad.

I had a grand plan for 4.31 and Evo8 1st, so 5% taller on all gears but OEM final 1st ratio for 48.3/72.5. Now that sounds pretty dang perfect. Except its a bastard trans that aint cheap to replace.

So going cheap and swapping back to 4.529 OEM final for a 48.3/69.0. Top of 2nd feels a bit sad there and If its anything like my old 2.3 setup, there isnt a course made I can hit redline. Well before I was only running revs to 7800 which is 67.3 and I can over rev the 2.2 to 8200 being more valve spring limited for 70.7.

So I'll still hit my 70mph marker but only just. I can always give myself more overrev room throwing beefier valvesprings/retainers than the basic GSC beehive upgrade but it should do for now. At least next year I'll have 10% more torque and 3mph earlier threshold which is going to be more useful on almost every course outside of some really long legged places.
well now I'm going to have to rethink my plan. I was going to swap to a 4.11 after driving your car. Curious why you're doing a FD swap and not a turbo swap?
Reply
Old Jan 19, 2021 | 08:21 AM
  #2805  
Dallas J's Avatar
Thread Starter
EvoM Guru
Veteran: Army
Photogenic
Liked
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,969
Likes: 811
From: Portland, Or
Originally Posted by griceiv
well now I'm going to have to rethink my plan. I was going to swap to a 4.11 after driving your car. Curious why you're doing a FD swap and not a turbo swap?
I did the gear swap back when I blew the 2.3l after sitting on the limiter on pretty much every course. Even the smallest courses I could hit the limiter. But with the 2.3 I set limiter at 7800 and with 24.8" tires the speeds were 45.6/65.2. After the change, I've hit the rev limiter in 2 places in almost 3 years. Once in crows right before a sweeper with only 1 blip, and once into a finish chute at Packwood where it didnt matter. So its basically too tall for the sacrifice of low end punch and launching.

With the 2.2, I'm more RPM limited by the valve springs but if I beef those up and push to say 8500 its all in over-rev territory but just in an area we spend very little time. The 4.11 just creates the lack of punch out of corners especially when mixed with the taller tires. So 8500, even if I do something silly like tapering a TBW position to reduce throttle from 8000 to 8500 just to soften the limiter would at least let me reach 73 in 2nd.

Looking at the data, current course trends seem to have us 40-60 75% of them. 20% of the remainder is less and less than 5% is above. And it also shows accel G builds slowly coming out of slow corners even loading it early (the car takes early loading WAAAYYYY better now with the diffs working, no snap under to over steer...). So in the more critical area at the beginning of an accel zone we're sluggish at the sake of potentially not blipping a limiter a couple times.

Anyways, this is my justification for going back to short final. For turbo changes, its like cams... where do we want the power. I just have a small upgrade from stock to push more mid range without loosing bottom end but top end is certainly choked up a bit. If I find this to just fall off too hard after ~6500/58mph we may look at something like the G25-660. Buf if I make that change, it will probably be more for a track focus since we have the Tesla now for playing in AX.
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:54 AM.