I'm with you. its just that a little adjustment here & there affects something else... it could be something that might impact you later.
FA has +30mm +60mm threaded lower tube option which has the same effect as longer forks. i got +60mm which is ALOT and really close to the upper control arm

 

You guys are misunderstanding goals and terminologies. Although I was pretty confused like kyoo until I realized we're all the same thing. Flipping the arm effectively "extends" the control arm end of your shock. Thats it. You can then take advantage of that extra length to drop the spring perches and create space (filled with a helper spring) that will compress with wheels on the ground. I managed to do this without flipping the LCA by adjusting the ride height to compensate. I think this LCA trick is really for people trying to maintain higher ride heights and running out of shock body length. This is all assuming you have independent height and spring perch control on your shock.

 

all droop is un-squishing of the springs up to maximum shock piston travel. helper springs are so squishable, so you just need extra piston travel (gained by giving up some spring perch height <-height you gained from other means)

 

this is basically where i'm at now, but as mentioned, gonna hold off on the helper springs for now. given that the rear wheel lifts so much on this car, i think it's going to see a lot of impact from the unusual sensation of the wheels constantly changing in spring rate. these ats rear diffs aren't the strongest either, but should be ok at my power level.

 

If you are lifting your rear wheels a lot that means your shock is at the full extension a lot too. If there is no preload on your main spring at full extension, each time you lift that wheel, the main spring would move some and it could easily get to the place you don't want it to be. Helper springs (under 50 lb/sq in) are there to prevent that and have no other function.

 

it becomes a spacer, so you need to factor that in

 

i have 2mm of spring preload, so it's sitting put on lift. the car already lifts the inner wheel, i imagine it will lift it an inch worth sooner now (basically any turn greater than 30 degrees)

 

I'm not sure I understand this. helpers were talking about are 15 to 120lbs. the rear is 225lbs each side so those helpers collapses instantly

 

that wouldn't really do anything to drop the rear though, would it? if i drop the rears by, i.e., an inch, then i can re-add an inch to the threads and get that much more droop travel. thought the rears would drop by the amount the helpers are x length, i.e., however much weight it can absorb first, before the main spring starts to compress. a light helper won't help drop the car at all, it'll instantly collapse, where as adding a stiffer helper will compress more first, resulting in more drop.

rears are like ~650lbs each side. this is pre-all the weight updates i made:

 

we had this conversation already. ~650lbs includes wheels & suspension (unsprung weight). its only about ~225lbs at the shock mount (sprung weight)

(also 650 will crush helper springs either way)

 

lets try this again. this is droop at shock so it translates to (maybe) 4inches at the fender
6mm main spring compression of a 900lbs/in spring = 225 lbs

 

ah i see. in any case, yea stiffer helper springs to absorb more of the weight compression leading to a lower car? if the helper compresses without any force it's not going to do anything for the height and just be a spacer on the strut mount?

it's definitely not just from the additional space given by a helper i dont think, since i already asked the question about a longer spring. the only way a minimal helper would provide more droop is if it extended the strut by the height of the helper, but that's going to just raise the car if the helper basically doesn't do anything.

 

that's droop but that's not height. if you're trying to fix height while adding droop, you gotta change spring rate, which is what i'm referring to as far as a "stiffer" helper spring.

or, am i confused? the softer the helper spring the more the drop? in any case i'm leaving it for now, but want to make a final decision. i can do anything from litreally 0.1k to 6k for a helper spring, which would provide the most drop in the ride height (that i can then add back at the bottom threads for more droop?

 

No. You can have all the droop you want but once the springs pushing down is countered by the swaybar the wheel will find equilibrium. Some force pulling wheel up, spring and weight pulling it down. Droop is irrelevant.

Helper springs are exactly what is needed (in Kyoo's example) if you just happen to want more droop/longer shock total length and conversely have to lower the spring perch and lose any preload on it.

You have 2 ways you can approach ride height, some of ya'll are trying to do both at the same time.

1) Set shock body length based on the travel range you want. On an evo rear, flip the arm if you want more down travel. Then set the perch height for ride height. If the spring is un-captured at full droop (jacked up for example) then toss a helper in there to keep it snug. People with fixed body lengths have to take this approach.

This is relevant for low spring rates or high aero cars using bumpstops for compression limits where aero load makes up for the increase weight transfer carried by that tire

2) Set spring at exactly zero preload and use body length to adjust ride height. With this your droop travel is just the total length of static compression. In my case, 550lbs corner weight, 90lbs unsprung, 0.73mr, 1450lb shock = (550-90)/(0.73^2*1450) = 0.6" of static compression. So when my car is sitting on the ground and I jack it up thats all the wheel can move down.

Why does it matter if it low? Once the wheel droops past the springs full extension nothing is pushing the tire down but it doesnt matter cause the bar is keeping the tire up. You can have more travel if you want, but its not going to effects much of anything. Using an assist/tender spring "can" soften the landing when tire sets down but it has a negative effect of reducing total roll rate at that intermediate zone which is not good.

Every bit of success Ive had in the Evo has revolved around "Make the ouside rear tire do more work". The rear isnt along for the ride, its the critical component. And same reason why my rear diff is so aggro. When Im tri-podding and I have thrust vector from that outside rear tire, what do you things the car does? Hint: Its awesome stuff.

 

thanks for the detailed. essentially, 2 is where i'm at and 1 is what i'm considering doing to add more. but for now, im going to leave it at 2. is the idea then to get the inner up as quickly as possible? because the rear uprights will certainly do that.