Dave appreciate all the input and discussion. As of right now if you really try and explain to us the differences in performance as clearly and in as varied environments it might be easier to understand why and what design changed cause what they do, in regards to fin ensity/style/arrangement/coresize/endtank design.....

Scorke

 

Dave,

i didnt read the entire post yet..

did you weigh the cores??

-------

ps, thanks for the chat today

cb

 

1. A fool and his money soon part ways. Just because it came from ebay it does not mean it is junk. It sounds like a case of sour grapes because you need to justify why you paid so much to gain so little.

2. There are certain parts that you need to spend the money on and there are other parts that are not necessary.

3. Figures you would spend up to $6K for a turbo kit because you suffer from sour grapes syndrome. You are a salesman's wet dream. You keep the EVO community alive and well.

4. Yay for Buschur Racing! Their $609 + tax +shipping more expensive super dooper racing intercooler is only 1% better than the EBAY junk.

 

7 mph tops and it is really not as much as you would think. Give us the outlet surface area and CFM of the fan as well as the exposed surface area of the core and one of the physics guys can tell you the MPH equivalent.

 

No offense to you Dave, my testing wasn't made to bash anyone, I just wanted to put the information out there that I found. For the record you have me misquoted. The AFR didnt go richer, it went leaner. I think this is due to there not being as much pressure drop with the ebay unit vs the stocker, which could also be the reason for the knock. Once I adjusted the fueling and pulled a degree of timing the car really felt great.

My testing also wasn't done on a dyno, it was done on the street. I tried to keep the variables the same....same stretch of road, same conditions basically....My testing wasn't perfect, and because I'm on the stock ecu, I don't have the ability to log IAT's.

My testing also wasnt done with a full blown race car on 40psi in mind. My testing was more for the average Joe. Honestly I wish that my testing would have proved to me that the intercooler is absolute junk, but it didn't.

I dont have a problem with people copying big names, but the grass roots guys like AMS and Buschur Racing who are a PART of our community....that's not good.

To close though, all this thread has shown is what ANY buschur thread shows....the guys who like Dave back him up no matter what, the guys who don't like Dave try their best to make him look foolish. To that I'm going to say.....8's and leave it at that.

 

Im not reading this entire thread because im sure its filled with bickering and ******ry abound, and if its not, good work evo m. Thank you david for doing this test, as it proves to me at least which IC flows better, as well as cools better. However, wouldnt the "ebaycooler" be better compared to your deluxe intercooler, as it is a copy of the AMS intercooler that is smaller, not there full race core. Still good test, and you definatly proved your point.

 

guys it not the hp loss it the iat temp difference that will affect the way your car runs. so David allow the car to adjust for the knock. I am sure it will change.
also most here have a 30,000 dollar car and want to go with cheap e-bay junk. I dont get it.

 

I'd be willing to take that bet anyday of the week. 7mph okay You constantly try to discredit anything Buschur does. This wasn't a "What is the most cost effective way to make HP test?" it was a dead swap to see which IC worked better. Buschur's and AMS's race core ICs are the best IMO. Are they worth 4x the cost of a Ebay IC? That's up to the customer which IC is better in this test? Buschur's Race core hands down.

 

statix,

The boost did not go up from having less area to fill. The larger intercooler from Ebay is very close to the same size as ours.

Also, you are incorrect about us not bolting our Race FMIC to a small turbo'd car. I absolutely suggest to every single customer to buy only our race FMIC, even on a stock turbo.

PVDO4, completely incorrect. Testing on the dyno is perfect for intercooler testing. The only way it would not be is if one of the intercoolers were tested with no air flow and the other with air flow. In this case they were tested with the exact same fan on the same speed and with the exact same starting temps. If one intercooler gains more heat on the dyno with a fan it is going to gain more heat on the road too. It's not rocket science.

Since some of you can't read and want to put +1,0000000 in topics here is my direct response to this which was posted by Faust. You will find my remarks with ** in front of them.

Originally Posted by Faust
Wow...Just Wow.

credibility cred·i·bil·i·ty
n.
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: "America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders" (Henry A. Kissinger).
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.

**Not sure what exactly I did to make anyone not believe what I am saying. I posted the facts and always have. I also said I have NEVER tested a part that I didn't post the results for. Never. What I did way was had the ebay intercoolers outperformed ours I would not have posted the results until I figured out a way to either resell them or beat their performance. This is the same thing I did when I tested the Ebay 02 housing. It performed well, we said it did and that it beat our ported part and then we started selling them. That makes me CREDIBLE.

With those statements you have shown that you are not a credible source for any of us to believe any of your past, present, or future Dyno Tests. You have blown my freaking mind. I honestly cannot believe you actually posted those words on this forum.

**BS, you are seeing/reading only what your narrow mind wants you to see and read.

Do you realize that by admitting that if something would have performed better than your own products, that you wouldn't have posted the results is just as bad as posting fake results none the less? This is just freaking crazy. How are we as a forum to believe anything you say now?

**BS again. Do you realize that me saying this stuff it makes me honest enough and man enough to say how it actually works? You can be assured that IF I say it then it is the truth. I have never posted anything that wasn't nor messed with any results. My record of testing speaks for itself. Open you eyes and mind.

Just off the top of my head it makes me now wonder why you are so against pitting your TBE against the XS Power one. Do you see what you have done?

**I have a XS Power turbo back. It is brand new, if you'd like to come by our shop I can show you it is brand new and I still have not tested it, if you stick your tongue in it you can taste it is still clean, come by and I'll let you try it I can't test it on my car as my car is entire V banded so it will not bolt on. I actually thought of doing it while I was in the mood for all this tonight and it was impossible. I may make an adapter and just bolt the catback on. The downpipe should flow about the same so it is worthless to test it.

You have just created a huge range of doubt in the whole forum as to how your products may perform because if you now blow off any future dyno test that pit X product against yours we as a forum don't know if you actually already did the test and found your product to be lacking...

**That's the way you see it. I see it as I am honest enough not to think it like all the other vendors do but not have the ***** to type it. Look at it however you wish. I haven't see any other vendor test their FMIC's that they make against this stuff.

You have just proven in your own words that you lack any integrity and/or credibility...Wow!

**BS again. What has been proven is that no matter what, people like yourself only see what they want to see and not the entire picture. So WOW! on that for awhile.

 

dave you made your point, why keep arguing.. its a losing battle.... you cant ever win here...

 

94awdcoupe, you do that **** on your testing. The boost went up 1 psi, you think that 1 psi added 50+ degrees of heat? If so you are not capable of doing the I/C testing you have offered to do. Seriously here, get real.

Also, why would I turn the boost down to 38? The car had 40 psi before. If I am going to start ****ing with things then I should have turned on the knock control and AIT correction too and really made the power SUCK with the ebay unit.

Instead I did everything I could to just dyno it and measure pressure, hp and air temps with nothing else effecting power.

It's incredible the crap that is suggested no matter how the testing is done.

From where you are sitting just remember one thing, you are the one sitting. There is no possible ****ing way in hell you can make the testing better than I did without just adding more temp/pressure probes and even doing that is only going to add information and not change the results.

 

Dave,
Why would you test one of your RACE FMIC against the Ebay FMIC; a copy of AMS STREET FMIC? That doesn't measure out.

A more honest test would be your Deluxe FMIC to a Ebay FMIC on a moderately modded car.

I am surprised the Ebay FMIC held 42 psi. It isn't even a race FMIC.

For the record, I am one of the Ebay FMIC owners, and it was consistent on my car on the dyno....then again I am running no where close to 40 psi.

 

240z, here is my hillbilly test. I drive down the road in my lifted up 4x4 with my super swamper mudders on it. At 10 mph with my hand out the window there is no resistance on it. Then I go up to 20, 30 and then 40 mph. When I reach 40 mph it feels like the same air flow as my dyno fans have. There you have it, 40 mph winds. Thanks for your input buddy. Always a pleasure hearing from you.

I have a request, seriously. For all of you that think the ebay is the way to go for the money or I am a crook, go buy it. I have one here I will sell for the ebay price the AMS robbery one and the great big one. Also, please continue to buy your parts from Ebay and other vendors who produce better parts than we do if that's what you feel. I'm fine with that. Just stay out of my threads in trade.

I honestly don't care to argue about it as I don't care about all the arm chair ignorant recommendations and remarks. They won't change my mind.

If 643 whp and 530 ft lbs of torque on a GT35R on our Mustand Dyno doesn't show anything............................I don't know what will.

 

SO what's the next episode going to be about in evom pros vs joes?

I vote for been there done that against talked about it and knew someone else who did it.

 

LoCo4, why would I test our Race FMIC agains the ebay? Because the Race FMIC is the only intercooler we make that I always recommend. It is the best, it is what I run, what Jarrod, Daniel, Trent, our TA car and our drag car run. I only offer the other intercoolers as options for people who want something less expensive or smaller. I do not care how they stack up. I know a smaller intercooler, even ours will have more temp increase and make less power. That's why non of us run it at our shop, we all run the race, same thing we try to recommend to everyone. It is up to them what they buy. Also, being that you are on my case about how I tested it I could have guessed you already owned one of these

Also, CBRD, I missed your question. Yes, I did weigh all of them. Our Race FMIC is quite a bit heavier than both the Ebay units. Further proving it's density and ability to remove the heat. It also looses the heat faster than both the ebay units. I have that in the logs that I will try to post information about tomorrow.