The OBD2 load point does not correspont to the XEDE load point. The best way to to log XEDE load point is through the XEDE itself using Commslog6

An old log graphed w/excel, at the bottom of the graph in blue is the timing offset

 

Or when running leaner registered knock events were telling the ECU to reduce timing advance to protect the engine from knocking more. By adding more fuel the knock was reduced or eliminated and the ECU gave the full timing advance of the map.

 

The Xede load points can be edited (you can add or subtract load points). So the load points can be made similar to the OBD2 port.

It is possible that the Xede's definition of load is different thant the OBD2 definition of load.

Here is the pocket logger's definition of load:

"Calculated Load:

Range: 0 to 100%
Technically, Calculated load is current airflow divided by peak airflow, where peak airflow is corrected for altitude (barometric pressure). Peak airflow is typically represented as the maximum theoretical airflow possible or is calculates as a function of engine RPM.


load = (Current Airflow/(peak airflow @ sea level))*(Sea level atmospheric pressure/Barometric pressure)*100% Basically it's exactly as it's labeled. It tells you how much load is on the engine. In super simple terms its throttle position corrected for RPM, gravity (hill) and drag (wind, rolling resistance, towing a trailer)."


Does anyone know the Xede's definition of load?

 

His original logs didn't indicate timing being pulled from knock though.

Non-the-less now that we all know how timing works via XEDE I feel its safe to say that the WOT timing pull on the standard maps matches almost every other tuners maps. The standard timing maps are fine but that AFR is a tad on the lean side.

The AFR variance could be contributed to the level of boost you are running as a few people discovered running more boost tends to richen up your AFR. If one person it running 22PSI and the other is running 20PSI their AFR won't match.

 

According to the Xede tuning manual leaning the AFR should reqiure timing retared. That is what my tuner did when he leaned out the AFR. So if Shiv's AFR maps are richened from 12.5:1 in 3rd gear to 11.5:1 in 3rd gear, that should require a slight timing advance. Until we figure how to accurately get the timing numbers from Xeded cars it will be hard for us to know by how much to advance the timing.

Anyone have ideas on how much timing advance a 1 point richer AFR would require?

 

so do we have to change our timing also?? isnt it good enough?? i mean why not just dump more fuel and leave it like that?? i think it doesnt hurt to add more fuel i wouldnt touch the timing tables.

 

jeff iam running 22psi of boost

 

nj I was wondering, have you ever considered getting the SMART system? Correct me, but I believe this would help you achieve what you are looking for automatically.

 

To get the most power out of my/your lightly modded cars we SHOULD advance timing when we richen the AFR from what Shiv has in his maps. The genral rule of thumb is to lean out the AFR and retard the timing. This is according to the Xede tuning manual. So the reverse should be true. I added 3% fuel to Shiv's fuel map, so by how much should I advance the timing to compensate?

You can leave the timing as is and it is safer to do so, but you will not be getting the power that you should especially if you are not knocking.

 

nj here is my log without fuel added:

Time,RPM,Timing,O2 1 Bank 1,O2 Trim 1 Bank 1

00:08.96,3750.0,10.0,0.9,0.0

00:09.27,4031.0,8.0,0.9,0.0

00:09.59,4297.0,6.0,0.92,0.0

00:09.89,4531.0,9.0,0.9,0.0

00:10.21,4820.0,10.0,0.9,0.0

00:10.52,5063.0,11.0,0.92,0.0

00:10.81,5359.0,11.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.13,5590.0,12.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.44,5863.0,13.0,0.92,0.0

00:11.76,6098.0,16.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.06,6328.0,18.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.39,6563.0,20.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.68,6793.0,22.0,0.92,0.0

00:12.98,6984.0,21.0,0.92,0.0

00:13.30,7191.0,23.0,0.92,0.0

00:13.60,7367.0,24.0,0.92,0.0

00:13.90,7539.0,24.0,0.92,0.0

and here is my log with fuel add:

Time,RPM,Timing,O2 1 Bank 1,O2 Trim 1 Bank 1

00:04.09,3992.0,6.0,0.96,0.0

00:04.36,4215.0,5.0,0.96,0.0

00:04.63,4434.0,7.0,0.96,0.0

00:04.90,4680.0,9.0,0.96,0.0

00:05.17,4867.0,9.0,0.96,0.0

00:05.44,5109.0,10.0,0.96,0.0

00:05.73,5336.0,10.0,0.96,0.0

00:06.00,5527.0,10.0,0.96,0.0

00:06.26,5742.0,11.0,0.96,0.0

00:06.53,5938.0,13.0,0.96,0.0

00:06.82,6137.0,14.0,0.96,0.0

00:07.09,6324.0,17.0,0.98,0.0

00:07.36,6516.0,19.0,0.96,0.0

00:07.63,6695.0,20.0,0.96,0.0

00:07.90,6895.0,23.0,0.96,0.0

00:08.18,7051.0,24.0,0.96,0.0

00:08.46,7211.0,25.0,0.96,0.0

00:08.72,7367.0,26.0,0.96,0.0

as you can see by 5000rpms ranges i had 1* of timing lowered when adding fuel to the map
but the funny thing is that at 7000rpm+++ i had timing advance when adding fuel.

 

I think something that might help you guys in this is remembering how a piggyback works.

Adding/subtracting fuel moves everything back or forward on the ECU load columns since the piggyback is just changing the Maf HZ numbers. Once you remember that/keep that in mind, you can look at your ECU load columns and figure out what tweaking will actually do.

Adding fuel will move it back into the higher load columns and less timing and subtracting fuel will move it into the lower load columns and more timing.

 

Leave the timing maps alone. The entire map is designed to run the AFR's I posted earlier. Now that you have your AFR matching what Shiv intended your timing is dead on.

Keep in mind the maps aren't designed to be on the edge of knock, they are designed to be open track maps. If you want a drag racing map that is on the bleeding edge of knock you'll need a custom tune.

 

Today, I finally got the chance to log my Timing Shift via the Xede, the OBD2 timing and my AFR. I had three separate buttons to press and de-press to start and stop the process I finally know what the timing really is with the Xede. I am in the final steps of flattening the AFR to 11.5:1 across the rpm. I am almost there as you can see. I am down to +/-0.4% adjustments here and there.



The timing, it turned out, was nicely retarded on Shiv's map just like you expect when someone is tuning from the retard timing and lean the AFR to the best burn school of thought. Of course, I am speculating on this, but it sure looks that this is Shiv's strategy here.

Tell me what you think of the timing on the map?

 

Might it be possible that Shiv is retarding the timing a bit as to
compensate for the leaner a/f ratios ?




.

 

Spec'd,

I noted several things in your log:

1. Your AFR was extremely lean. Your hitting 13:1 in the high rpms. I have never hit that on the Shiv maps that I did not modify. The most I hit was 12.5:1.

2. Your EGTs are 70-80 degrees too hot. I think if you richen your AFR, then that will bring them down. Start by adding 4% fuel for the entire Fuel map and zero out the cells that become positive.

3. Your peak boost happens at 4100 rpm, which is somewhat high for na 05 Evo. Mine peaks at 3700 rpm. I do not know why your boost is peaking so late. Your boost is also peaking TOO high for 91 octane. That did not happen to me with Shiv's base map. Infact, his boost map is relatively tame. I barely hit 21 psi and tapered to 16.xx psi by redline on 93 octane gas. I had to add 2% inorder to hit 22 psi and maxed out the boost table 6000 rom and beyond to keep boost from going below 18 psi. It might be that the caliberation of the MAP sensor is off on your logger.