Isn't That Lean?
Originally Posted by razorlab
The EGT isn't going to tell you anything about what's going on at torque peak. They don't react fast enough, it's mainly for tuning higher RPM and sustained WOT (track, top speed, etc)
EGT would have to react like a boost gauge to give you any information at torque peak.
I also think you will have a hard time with your EGT readings since you will be running alot less timing then everyone else to be able to run 12:1 which could be raising your EGT's.
If I where you and really wanted to do the 12:1 tune, I would do it on a dyno with det cans.
EGT would have to react like a boost gauge to give you any information at torque peak.
I also think you will have a hard time with your EGT readings since you will be running alot less timing then everyone else to be able to run 12:1 which could be raising your EGT's.
If I where you and really wanted to do the 12:1 tune, I would do it on a dyno with det cans.
Spec'd log showed about 70* higher EGTs than should be. That got me concerned about where my EGTs are.
I am planning on getting a Stethescope (sp) from Snap-on to listen to knock.
This is the latest compilation of four AFR/PSI logs. Logworks allows you to compile as many logs as you want and make a neat table that shows you where your AFR is in relation to any other variable. In this case the AFR is in relation to rpm and PSI.
For example, @ 5K rpm and 20 psi there are 22 AFR data points whose Average 11.51:1. You can also show this table in max, min, number points, and Std Dev. This one is in Avg. You can also add and remove rows/columns as you wish. I made the columns similar to those of the Xede Fuel columns.
That is what I love about Logworks/Innovate it has so many features and is very expandable.

To my eyes, this is the best yet. The large majority of AFR points are in the 11.40-11.53 range.
I also made the AFR taper to 11:30ish @ 7k. Is that too much or too little? What do you think.
The only thing I do not like is that the car is boosting to 23.xx psi. I want to make sure not to boost above 22 psi or 21.5 psi even.
For example, @ 5K rpm and 20 psi there are 22 AFR data points whose Average 11.51:1. You can also show this table in max, min, number points, and Std Dev. This one is in Avg. You can also add and remove rows/columns as you wish. I made the columns similar to those of the Xede Fuel columns.
That is what I love about Logworks/Innovate it has so many features and is very expandable.

To my eyes, this is the best yet. The large majority of AFR points are in the 11.40-11.53 range.
I also made the AFR taper to 11:30ish @ 7k. Is that too much or too little? What do you think.
The only thing I do not like is that the car is boosting to 23.xx psi. I want to make sure not to boost above 22 psi or 21.5 psi even.
Last edited by nj1266; Aug 11, 2006 at 10:40 AM.
Some of you have asked me to do a full 3rd gear and 4th gear WOT runs. Well I almost pulled it off on a very nice long on ramp close to where I live. I went to 7500 rpm in 3rd and 6400 rpm in 4th. I ran out of room towards the end. One of these dyas I will get a chance to do a full run in both gears. Here is the image of the run:

I also did the timing during the same run and the curve looks very nice to my eyes.

I also did the timing during the same run and the curve looks very nice to my eyes.
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Try this:
In 4th gear, try riding your brakes so that you can cold 5500rpm at full throttle. Just for a couple of sec. That's all you will need to get a stable AFR reading. The problem with reading AFR during acceleration runs is that there is a time lag. This would rule out that effect. On the dyno is slow the ramp rate down a whole bunch when I want an accurate picture of what AFR is doing.
-shiv
In 4th gear, try riding your brakes so that you can cold 5500rpm at full throttle. Just for a couple of sec. That's all you will need to get a stable AFR reading. The problem with reading AFR during acceleration runs is that there is a time lag. This would rule out that effect. On the dyno is slow the ramp rate down a whole bunch when I want an accurate picture of what AFR is doing.
-shiv
how different factors effect the log readings.
In my area, it's very difficult to get make good street pulls with
consistant readings from pull to pull. It's also very dangerous and stupid !
The readings also change alot when the pulls are done fast, slow, medium
or a combination of both.
Making 3rd gear pulls on the street is not even close to my
real world driving habits. I don't drive in 3rd gear everywhere
all the way to redline. That's ridiculous.
With this said, I now understand the concept of why dyno tuning
will give much better, consistant and accurate readings.
So when Dyno Day comes back to Tuning Technowledgies I'll
have the man himself give me a dyno tune... Shiv
Originally Posted by Spec'd
After doing multiple pulls in 3rd and 4th gear, it has become very apparent
how different factors effect the log readings.
In my area, it's very difficult to get make good street pulls with
consistant readings from pull to pull. It's also very dangerous and stupid !
The readings also change alot when the pulls are done fast, slow, medium
or a combination of both.
Making 3rd gear pulls on the street is not even close to my
real world driving habits. I don't drive in 3rd gear everywhere
all the way to redline. That's ridiculous.
With this said, I now understand the concept of why dyno tuning
will give much better, consistant and accurate readings.
So when Dyno Day comes back to Tuning Technowledgies I'll
have the man himself give me a dyno tune... Shiv
how different factors effect the log readings.
In my area, it's very difficult to get make good street pulls with
consistant readings from pull to pull. It's also very dangerous and stupid !
The readings also change alot when the pulls are done fast, slow, medium
or a combination of both.
Making 3rd gear pulls on the street is not even close to my
real world driving habits. I don't drive in 3rd gear everywhere
all the way to redline. That's ridiculous.
With this said, I now understand the concept of why dyno tuning
will give much better, consistant and accurate readings.
So when Dyno Day comes back to Tuning Technowledgies I'll
have the man himself give me a dyno tune... Shiv
If there is a dyno day at TT, I will go and hang out with you guys. Shiv is so fun to be around, he is the ultimate trash talker
Maybe we can even get a chance to do some karting like the last time when Shiv was in town. That was so much fun and the beer and pizza after was really cool.What I want to do is take my car to TT and put it on a dyno to see what my tuning has produced. I would also like to have Alfred do a 4th gear tune on a 93 octane map. It should be easy since he has my base 91 octane map. It would take him an hour or less to tune. Right now I am almost certain that the 11.5:1 on my 3rd gear pull is around 11-10.9-10.8:1 in 4th gear.
I would really like to see if I can get to 12:1 in 3rd gear on 93 octane with a bit more timing retard and a little less boost. But I will wait on that one until I get my EGT gauge and possibly do it on the dyno with a knock listening device.
Be careful though NJ, on-ramps put different loads on your car then normal street driving. Depending on the on-ramp of course. Most of the on-ramps I have seen are either a incline or decline.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
Originally Posted by razorlab
Be careful though NJ, on-ramps put different loads on your car then normal street driving. Depending on the on-ramp of course. Most of the on-ramps I have seen are either a incline or decline.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
You are right Razor. That is why I will take your advice and do the 12:1 tuning on a dyno with the EGT installed and a listening device keeping track of knock. If this is going to be done, I must do it right. Right now I am happy with 11.5:1 AFR, safe timing and around 22 psi peak boost.
Originally Posted by nj1266
I have also logged on other flat ramps and found that there is not a lot of difference in the log.
You are right Razor. That is why I will take your advice and do the 12:1 tuning on a dyno with the EGT installed and a listening device keeping track of knock. If this is going to be done, I must do it right. Right now I am happy with 11.5:1 AFR, safe timing and around 22 psi peak boost.
You are right Razor. That is why I will take your advice and do the 12:1 tuning on a dyno with the EGT installed and a listening device keeping track of knock. If this is going to be done, I must do it right. Right now I am happy with 11.5:1 AFR, safe timing and around 22 psi peak boost.
With your current tune, chances are you are in a safe temperature region.
Originally Posted by razorlab
Be careful though NJ, on-ramps put different loads on your car then normal street driving. Depending on the on-ramp of course. Most of the on-ramps I have seen are either a incline or decline.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
It can be a part of logging your car, but not the one place you log it. As I know you know from what you have posted already.
property for nice gradual ramped up pulls.
Something like an abandoned airstrip.
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
NJ..... by looking at the timing on the 3/4 run.....you can add a few more * up top. If its holding at 18 you should try to get 20.
yeah thats true in my case iam getting 22* at redline, but the funny thing is that i used to get 20* but after adding more fuel to my map the timing went up 2*,maybe my car had a bit of knock acceptable i would say cause it was only 2* of timing.









