The point you miss is that David Buschur breaks in an engine hard. When you break it in hard it will be faster (slightly) but also in all probability not last as long as a gently broken in engine.

All the experts will agree on that.

Also, it's not that the engineers are dumb and made stupid decisions but that in building a car as in life everything is a compromise. I believe Shiv said the synth was a compromise to achieve cold idle emissions specs. As Mits is NOT a racing company but a car company who has to deal with CARB standards one could easily see how an emissions compromise could be made at the expense of power. After all the evo still has a cat which can rob power blind as well

 

5Star-- The information I have gathered on the subject has come from folks with far greater credentials than I, you, or Mr. Buschur. I too have tuned 600-900hp engines for racing use. But that does not qualify me as a break-in specialist. But in the end, I think it is up to the owner to decide what oil he wants to break his engine in on. You're arguments are just that, arguments. If you re-read the thread, you'll see that Mitsubishi's decision to use Mobil 1 from the factory has just as much (if not more) to do with cold start emissions and turbo bearing longevity (resistance to coking) as it does with meeting proper lubrication requirments during break-in.

Our suggestion, based upon the logical arguments we've heard from qualified people and what we've seen, first-hand, on the dyno, is to use regular non-sythetic oil for the first 2000-3000 miles and then to switch over to a *good* synthetic from Redline or Royal Purple. Of course, this is only a suggestion.

My 2c,
Shiv

 

Xtreme ( formerly Ralliart in the UK) use dino oil on all of thier new 7's and 8's for the first four thousand miles....they say that the synth oil is far too slick for a new engine to break in.....just a snippet I thought I could introduce..

 

Here is my thoughts on this whole debate...

I would HOPE that knows what they are doing with a 1st fill of Mobil1 synthetic from the factory. I would bet that the oil that comes in the cars actually has some "break-in-additives" that normal everyday Mobil1 doesnt. What really matters is the hone on the cylinder walls...if it is done properly you should be able to get the rings to seat using jello pudding, Mobil1, redline, Valvoline whatever........ time will tell if the engine builders at Mitsu are on the ball, we'll all see soon enough.


BUT...... I am a skeptical ****, a true old schooler - I shave with a straight blade even though they say that electrics "shave closer" - I make my coffee with whole beans and a press - I prefer real breasts to the "new and improved" versions.... call me a renaissance man.

I broke mine in on cheapo-oil, now I run synthetic.

Old schooler
Jason

 

Nice to hear that we're not he only crazy ones

thanks for the info limey

Shiv

 

what brand of oil do you recommend to use if its not the stock synthetic oil?

 

Hmm, Who would you trust? A Used car salesman or Ralliart?

 

BTW: I sell new cars. (part-time) I'm a full-time Philosophy student; which should give me quite the advantage in this debate.

AND... Until you can post substantiated information, I'm going to stick by my previous statements. Or rather, stick by the statements of the best engineering teams of the world. And the best 4G63 builder in the world.

 

That mighta worked on the previous civic crew but seasoned grads know exactly what that foofoo is all about Aint nothing more boring than dead eccentrics that echo on in the halls of candlelit dorm basements musing about things they dont understand. I will take my injection of hard facts- Medical Biology, Chemistry and Physics- Apples- nah I dont prefer them instead of prophesying about the cycle of life and the glories of creation- I see it for the ovary it is.

Just walk out to the car take the oil cap off a and gently waft it towards you or stick your damn nose in there and sniff.
Gas smell = improper ring seating and gas blowing by. Still not convinced that smell is gas? send it off for $30 bucks and get a complete chemistry

 

I don't understand why being a philosphy student should give you an edge in this debate. This has more to do with physics and chemistry than anything. I love philosphy and it has its place in the world, just not in this debate. Except for pointint out the occasional fallacy or something. heh heh

And MP5, "hard science" isn't all that it's cut out to be. I could go on for awhile about the philosophical suppositions of science but I won't since that's an another topic altogether. Anyways back to the subject...

First off what is dyno oil? I hear people say to put dyno oil and mineral oil in, so what's the difference? Also one doesn't necessarily require an engineering degree to explain why mineral/synth oil works better. They see results between the two and do some comparisons. Logic can be stronger than years of book study.

It's like dropping an apple from a 5 story building, and dropping a cannonball from the same height. We don't necessarily have to know what the exact value of g is, or how the molecular compositions of the two different materials are. We see the effects and can make logical and rational conclusions from the effects. Of course knowing the reasons why helps us in understanding the effects, but aren't necessary to understand the outcome from the effects.

And because there is so much more than just science going on at Mitsubishi and other companies, it's really hard to determine why those engineers would put in the cars, what appears to be worse from the factory. If the factor of human error and emotions can be taken out then we can trust fully that what is put in at the factory is better for the cars.

 

What I really want to know is:

I have 10K on my car. Is it too late for mineral oil?

What Mineral Oil should I use. If I can use it?

Actually my next oil change will be at 13.5K. Is that too late?

Theoretically if it's not broken in now. You can brake it in at any time right?

 

I originally changed my oil @ 380. The oil that came out smelled like it came out a gas can! However, I drive this girl 5 miles each way in the city.

After that, I installed some regualr oil. changed the oil @ 3k, no gas smell. However, since that time I also had a long drive to vegas & back which helped immensly for seating the rings. You be the judge. I know what my oil smelled like.

I deal with Mobil 1 synthetic daily, it's the only thing we use. whether its break-in & power checks, development or endurance testing. In saying that, we dont *****-foot around during our break in periods either. Once she's up to temp, 3 different steady state modes @ partial throttle, several transient simulations & it's off to the power checks. We only put about 75 miles on the engine after its all said & done & I have yet to smell methanol in the oil. I can definetely smell it after I remove an endurance engine! Then again the girl is worn out!

Hope this helps.

 

 

I would be curious too. For someone like me who already has 20k miles. Would switching to mineral oil now, still help aid with the break-in process?

I really could care less if I'm down a few hp honestly. My car feels strong and I'm happy.
But if all the notion about this synthetic break-in process is true, I would really start to feel uncomfortable about owning this car for the next 5yrs.
My old DSM is still running strong at 156k with no major motor work ever done.
Everything else had to fall apart on that car, but the 4g63 was always a strong point and probably the only strong point with that car.

I swore I would never buy a product again after that experience (obviously I lied to myself). But I just couldn't resist not having an Evo

Shiv,
would you be able to comment on this?
thanks,
Rob

 

took synth out @ 250, and have changed the reg grade twice. The last change occured after 1,200 miles - the oil was very dark, And this was due to moderate driving. Changing back to synth @3K!