this debate will go on forever, as long as people have opinions and thoughts, these threads will continue to grow....why dont some people on here put some dyno graphs up....
Tell if you broke in with the factory fill, and the same for the ones who switched out to basic oil for the break in, and then compare those! this might help the debate some.

 

Yes, it is a free world which includes oil tech people - did you talk to them Shiv? You base your conclusions and recommendations on ancient history and half-the-story. Your prerogative, of course...

Here is the other side being ignored, - at least through the first 2 pages, I have not read the rest so sorry if this was already covered - from the weird and wonderful world of science!

Dyno oil is loaded with additives which help it maintain its viscosity over an advertised service range. In the synthetic, there are lot less additives 'cause it has a lot of properties "built in". ie, You get a lot more oil (slippery stuff) in synthetic then in a dyno.

In the past - when tolerances were horrendous - it was the dyno
(dyno stands for dynosaur) oil's propensity to breakdown that helped seal the rings by depositing the broken-down slush on the rings. With current OEM machining tolerances - I recommend you ask yourself, is this extra layer of sluidge on my piston rings really necessary?

So now that you know the rest of the story (no relation to Paul Harvey), go ahead, it is a free world after all - use the dyno oil to break in by breaking down and leaving sludge everywhere (not just rings) which consequent use of synthetic may or may not clear out. See, slippery stuff by its design will also "slip" over the sludge and deposits.

FYI, All Mercedes vehicles now come pre-loaded with Mobil 1 - this started first with AMG and then carried through to the rest of the product line. And, there is currently a "watch" on a number of early built ML's which came loaded with dyno oil before the switch to synthetic edict came out. You see, some had problems, engines were torn down and MB found that there was too much sludge attributable to dyno oil that contributed to early engine demise. Yes, my ML430 holds almost 9qts of oil and so the problem would be excarbated; and yes, my truck tells me (literally) when an oil change is required (about every 10-12,000mi), - but nonetheless, sludge attributable to dyno oil. Call me foolish, but I trust MB...

 

What would you say if the source was a techie? Hmm sorry bro 12K for an oil change doesnt inspire much trust about oil knowledge

 

My truck has a number of sensors which monitor oil quality - particulate matter, dielectric constant and viscosity are just some of them. When the oil falls out of spec, a little display tells me to change it - and I have, at 10-12,000mile intervals.

Since synthetic oils do not break down as much why is it so hard to believe that it will last 12K miles? Especially when you have 9qts? Let me let you in on a little secret, MP5 - oil longevity (especially synthetic's) in the engine is limited not necessarily by the oil itself, but the oil filter's ability to remove the byproducts.

Oh, and I do not take words from any techies, everything I say is based on my formal education as a chemist and 15 years of experience dealing with all things oily. Cheers.

 

Glad we got some knowledgeable people here! Can we agree that 9 quarts of synthetic on a very low HP/L high torque truck with prolly <6K redline doesnt have near the stresses as a 135.5 HP/L (200HP/L in my case ) 7600 RPM firebreathing turbo charged car depending on 4.6 quarts and the smallest filter ive seen also needing to cool a super hot turbo?

 

Absolutely! Hence my disclaimer of the 9qts, etc. I would never in a million years recommend nor would myself change the oil in an EVO at 10-12K interval! If an EVO had all the sensors etc that my truck has, I bet it would be very much closer to 5-6K, likely even less! It'd be neat see exactly how much, actually.

The size of the filter on the EVO is yet another reason to minimize engine's exposure to dyno oil if you do decide to break it in with it. I'll check with people within my company more knowledgeable then I, who deal directly with filter manufacturers, to see whose oil filters are best - they are not all created equally.

BTW, my truck has 64HP/L and no redline . OKay, none is marked . It has about a 7000RPM redline but the darn rev limiter kick in at 111MPH at - wait for it - 4000RPM! Truck feels like a rock at 111 and I believe all non-US-bound same vintage versions are only redline limited and comfortably get up to 136MPH.

 

Yes. And I wouldn't be so hastly in comparing the build tolerances of the 4g63 with that of any modern MB engine.

shiv

 

Isn't EVO VIII 4G63 built to race specs - at least SCCA. I'd say tolerances should be pretty much high in that case - Mitsu was planning on winning races, no? Please correct me if I am wrong - I am all for learning as much as I can and am willing to admit when (not very often ) I am wrong.

Oh, and Shiv, if you did talk to the oil folks, how come you did not offer their side of the story to collaborate your recommendations, or did it correspond to mine? Selective use of facts is not very forthcoming...

BTW, I am not bashing you Shiv. I think you are great tuner and I will likely go with your setup come spring. I am just offering more qualified fodder for the discussion fire. And as a free-world denizen like yourself, I would never say to anyone not to use dyno oil, that's a personal decision one has to make based on info presented - all the info.

 

den·i·zen ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dn-zn)
n.
An inhabitant; a resident: denizens of Monte Carlo.
One that frequents a particular place: a bar and its denizens.
Ecology. An animal or a plant naturalized in a region.
Chiefly British. A foreigner who is granted rights of residence and sometimes of citizenship.

tr.v. Chiefly British den·i·zened, den·i·zen·ing, den·i·zens
To make a denizen of; grant rights of residence to.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English denisein, from Anglo-Norman denzein, from deinz, within, from Late Latin deintus, from within. See dedans.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
deni·zen·ation n.



denizen

\Den"i*zen\ (d[e^]n"[i^]*z'n), n. [OF. denzein, deinzein, prop., one living (a city or country); opposed to forain foreign, and fr. denz within, F. dans, fr. L. de intus, prop., from within, intus being from in in. See In, and cf. Foreign.] 1

1. One who is admitted by favor to all or a part of the rights of citizenship, where he did not possess them by birth; an adopted or naturalized citizen.

2. One admitted to residence in a foreign country.


denizen

\Den"i*zen\, v. t. 1. To constitute (one) a denizen; to admit to residence, with certain rights and privileges.

As soon as denizened, they domineer. --Dryden.

2. To provide with denizens; to populate with adopted or naturalized occupants.


No need to sneaky slip anything bout foriegn people

 

I have talked to folks a Mitsubishi in Japan. Including those who have been involved in emissions certification. I have talked to OE engine tuners in the UK. I have talked to folks at a rather well known west coast synthetic oil company. Needless to say, one gets a lot of conflicting facts when talking to so many people, few of which are even willing to address the issue let alone talk about possible solutions. In times like this you have to read between the lines and try to correlate what one sees on the dyno and at the emissions lab with what you hear from the experts. Everyone has a job and everyone is afraid to say something that will come back and haunt them later in their career. Mitsubishi US (a sales company) is just as in the dark with the whole break-in process as everyone in this thread. Trust me. I've had boardroom meetings with some senior folks at Mitsubishi US on this subject alone. It boils down to what goes on in behind closed doors in Japan which is anyone's guess. But considering that there is evidence of MMC using out-of-spec components for US bound cars, I only place so much weight in what they say. In a constantly growing sample pool, we've seen that cars that have broken in on non sythetic oil have made more power than cars that have not. Plus, they are less knock prone, have lower leakdown numbers and register far lower HC readings in the oil. This is more than enough proof for me. Throw in some "unofficial" info I've gathered (some of which I've already mentioned) and the argument for non-sythetic break-in is compelling. There is only so much I can say on this subject without getting in trouble so I'll shut up now.

Shiv

 

Huh? I am glad you have access to the dictionary . Sorry if I offended anybody - definitely not my intent, see "den·i·zen ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dn-zn)
n. An inhabitant; a resident: "

We are all denizens of planet earth and a free world. BTW, I am a 0-gen (born in a foreign country and a naturalized US citizen) foreigner myself, so please do not make assumptions...

 

Entertainment for a crappy day at work!

Thanks!!

 

Why don't we dispense with the "dyno" measurement bull****. We all know that dyno measurements are subjective. There are too many other factors that influence an engine's power output for dyno readings to be a definative reference of whether or not an engine was broken in correctly.

I'd rather look at leakdown measurements and see how they differ from engine to engine. The ability to hold pressure in the cylinders is the whole purpose of properly breaking in the engine. A leakdown test determines this and is a far better indicator of engine condition.

Just my somewhat frank $0.02 worth.

 

Interesting poll at this link:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...5&pagenumber=1


Hmmm.... seems like the non/sythnetic oil guys don't smell gas in their oil? Coincidence?

 

Absolutely! good man we could settle this with a few $30 oil chems as well