rapid cylinder wear w/pics
Feb 21, 2007, 06:43 AM
#47
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The number 2 cylinder always runs leanest on a 4g63 because of intake manifold design. The geometry of the intake allows numer 2 to recieve the most air so it always runs leaner than the other three. After taking apart 100 4g63 motors in need of rebuild this is very apparent. The no 2 piston always leads the way in detonation damage.
If your engine tuned on gas is rich for cylinders 1,3,and 4 then so is your alky injected engine. Spraying one or too jets before the TB does not make the A/F all of sudden equal between cylinders. The problem of unequal distribution gets even worse when you inject alky. Unless of course you are injecting on each runner with four jets, then it would be the same as no injection.
If your engine tuned on gas is rich for cylinders 1,3,and 4 then so is your alky injected engine. Spraying one or too jets before the TB does not make the A/F all of sudden equal between cylinders. The problem of unequal distribution gets even worse when you inject alky. Unless of course you are injecting on each runner with four jets, then it would be the same as no injection.
also i think 2 smaller nozzles spaced a distanct apart is better than 1 big one
Feb 21, 2007, 06:49 AM
#49
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I am using the 375ML/min nozzle.
I have used 100% meth, but I can tell when I add a little water. Seems to like the water as much as the meth.
But as you can see thats alot of wear for 38K.
Feb 21, 2007, 07:38 AM
#50
I have a 05 WW Evo VIII. 37K on the clock so far.
After hearing a little rod knock, I tore the motor down today to inspect.
After removing the oil pan, oil filter, oil pickup, inspected it to find some copper bits, left over bearing.
The piston skirts and cylinder walls are worn quite a bit.
I have been running meth injection for over 6 months everyday.
75% meth/25% water.
After hearing a little rod knock, I tore the motor down today to inspect.
After removing the oil pan, oil filter, oil pickup, inspected it to find some copper bits, left over bearing.
The piston skirts and cylinder walls are worn quite a bit.
I have been running meth injection for over 6 months everyday.
75% meth/25% water.
Feb 21, 2007, 08:07 AM
#51
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94AWDcoupe,
You mention that your blue car has "considerable bore wear". I'm wondering how many thousands that is and how much wear there is to the crank and rod bearings? What is the cylinder to skirt clearance before and after that 5K miles.
The pictures of the second engine looks like an engine that was never broken in properly and never had the rings seated in, do you have a picture of the side of a piston from that one? What kind of car was that out of and how much power was it making? Tell us how these two engines were broken in please.
You mention that your blue car has "considerable bore wear". I'm wondering how many thousands that is and how much wear there is to the crank and rod bearings? What is the cylinder to skirt clearance before and after that 5K miles.
The pictures of the second engine looks like an engine that was never broken in properly and never had the rings seated in, do you have a picture of the side of a piston from that one? What kind of car was that out of and how much power was it making? Tell us how these two engines were broken in please.
Feb 21, 2007, 11:57 AM
#52
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Howard, what is your sampling rate for your datalogging?
hello all. i am pleased to contribute to this thread which was linked to over at our rx7club.com auxiliary injection section where i am a moderator.
first let me say l love all kinds of AI as it really is a WIN WIN re turbo'd engine durability and power.
what really prompted me to post here was someone's comment as to whether they should run straight alcohol. my position is that water, a mix and alcohol are all good and way ahead of plan B which is to not run AI.
100% methanol is my preference.
i run a rotary w the Alkycontrol system. i run two M10 nozzles for around 1250 cc/minute. i have replaced around 25% of my pump gas w alcohol from 5.5 psi on up to max boost for me at 23 psi.
i run a turbosystem of my own design. two TO4s w two 3 inch downpipes that makes over 80 pounds per minute of air good for 640 rw rotary hp when tuned out. i am around 500+ currently at 18 psi.
i digitally log just about everything. i log digitally egts preturbo from each rotor separately. i log backpressure preturbo digitally. i log fuel pressure digitally, along w all the usual stuff...
so i KNOW what's happening... if you log enough stuff you don't have to be smart.
since i have the data re the issue relating to alcohol and "wall washing" i thought i would share.....
the chart above is part of the log from my last run of the season... oct 30. it was a roll-on 3rd gear pull w boost as high as 18.7 psi. the clutch started to slip and i got out of it.
afrs were in the 11s.
given the delivery from my two TO4s (around 80 pounds per minute at 17-18 psi, my injector duty approx 70% (850 1600) and the amount of methanol, over 1200 cc/min, as well as shredding a 400 ft pound capacity clutch my guess is i was making over 500 rwhp on this run.
note that my AFRs do not get overly rich as i get out of the throttle. my egts also do not dive. this indicates to me that there isn't a major run-on issue. i have discussed the concept w Julio (Alkycontrol) and his conclusion is that there isn't enough alcohol going thru the motor to effect wear. he runs in the 10s on pump and alcohol w his 231 cu in 2 valve 3850 pound buick. so do 100s of his customers. he should know.
as an additional note, i ran my alcohol all season last year and i consistantly gained compression throughout the year. my highest compression reading was the day i put it away for the season.
the key though w re to this thread is found in the above chart. notice as i get totally out of the throttle and the boost drops w the TPS that the egts and afrs stay steady.
no indication of a big flood of alcohol or the afrs would have gone miles rich.
i suggest you post your pictures and info on turbobuick and let Julio comment on your situation. you may have a problem, but it does not lie within the fundamental design of a progressive system.
howard coleman
hello all. i am pleased to contribute to this thread which was linked to over at our rx7club.com auxiliary injection section where i am a moderator.
first let me say l love all kinds of AI as it really is a WIN WIN re turbo'd engine durability and power.
what really prompted me to post here was someone's comment as to whether they should run straight alcohol. my position is that water, a mix and alcohol are all good and way ahead of plan B which is to not run AI.
100% methanol is my preference.
i run a rotary w the Alkycontrol system. i run two M10 nozzles for around 1250 cc/minute. i have replaced around 25% of my pump gas w alcohol from 5.5 psi on up to max boost for me at 23 psi.
i run a turbosystem of my own design. two TO4s w two 3 inch downpipes that makes over 80 pounds per minute of air good for 640 rw rotary hp when tuned out. i am around 500+ currently at 18 psi.
i digitally log just about everything. i log digitally egts preturbo from each rotor separately. i log backpressure preturbo digitally. i log fuel pressure digitally, along w all the usual stuff...
so i KNOW what's happening... if you log enough stuff you don't have to be smart.
since i have the data re the issue relating to alcohol and "wall washing" i thought i would share.....
the chart above is part of the log from my last run of the season... oct 30. it was a roll-on 3rd gear pull w boost as high as 18.7 psi. the clutch started to slip and i got out of it.
afrs were in the 11s.
given the delivery from my two TO4s (around 80 pounds per minute at 17-18 psi, my injector duty approx 70% (850 1600) and the amount of methanol, over 1200 cc/min, as well as shredding a 400 ft pound capacity clutch my guess is i was making over 500 rwhp on this run.
note that my AFRs do not get overly rich as i get out of the throttle. my egts also do not dive. this indicates to me that there isn't a major run-on issue. i have discussed the concept w Julio (Alkycontrol) and his conclusion is that there isn't enough alcohol going thru the motor to effect wear. he runs in the 10s on pump and alcohol w his 231 cu in 2 valve 3850 pound buick. so do 100s of his customers. he should know.
as an additional note, i ran my alcohol all season last year and i consistantly gained compression throughout the year. my highest compression reading was the day i put it away for the season.
the key though w re to this thread is found in the above chart. notice as i get totally out of the throttle and the boost drops w the TPS that the egts and afrs stay steady.
no indication of a big flood of alcohol or the afrs would have gone miles rich.
i suggest you post your pictures and info on turbobuick and let Julio comment on your situation. you may have a problem, but it does not lie within the fundamental design of a progressive system.
howard coleman
Feb 21, 2007, 06:56 PM
#53
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i just took another look at my log....
sampling rate is 6 per second.
as to my afr remaining fairly stable off throttle. apparently i wasn't completely out of the throttle as my (base fuel) injector duty cyles bottomed (only one tick) at 20% and were not below 30% after.
that's probably why my afrs weren't in the 20s.
howard coleman
sampling rate is 6 per second.
as to my afr remaining fairly stable off throttle. apparently i wasn't completely out of the throttle as my (base fuel) injector duty cyles bottomed (only one tick) at 20% and were not below 30% after.
that's probably why my afrs weren't in the 20s.
howard coleman
Mar 2, 2007, 05:57 AM
#55
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i just took another look at my log....
sampling rate is 6 per second.
as to my afr remaining fairly stable off throttle. apparently i wasn't completely out of the throttle as my (base fuel) injector duty cyles bottomed (only one tick) at 20% and were not below 30% after.
that's probably why my afrs weren't in the 20s.
howard coleman
sampling rate is 6 per second.
as to my afr remaining fairly stable off throttle. apparently i wasn't completely out of the throttle as my (base fuel) injector duty cyles bottomed (only one tick) at 20% and were not below 30% after.
that's probably why my afrs weren't in the 20s.
howard coleman
Mar 2, 2007, 09:41 AM
#56
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http://www.vpracingfuels.com/M2.html
Yes, the candy scent is real. It's actually kinda nice.
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