EF3 then, but we will go for a ride in an EF4 powered car in the future.

 

Here is the latest graph I have showing RPMs. This is shootout mode. While it doesn't spool as fast as my BBK full did of ourselves it's not as bad as some think

 

revo a fp black at 4000RPM makes 400wtq. you're only making 290wtq.

at 4400rpm you're making 420wtq ..... a fp black at 4400rpm makes over 500wtq.

so yes it is bad.. and here is the proof to put it into perspective.

however it is a bigger turbo then the fp black so its not like its surprising.. it will make more power out the top safer then a black.

you have to sacrifice something to gain something.. its always been that way.



graph is 3rd gear. in 4th gear a black will peak 600wtq before 4000.. its no comparison.

 

ok looking at this graph http://www.maperformance.com/img/EF4SilverEVO8.jpg

thats an ef4 and a 2.4L that is not to bad.

that one has 350wtq by 4000RPM

and looks like around 470wtq by 4500RPM

but yours is pretty laggy Revo. atleast that graph is.

 

I never said my ef4 would out spool a black. I am just reiterating it's not like a damn t4 as some would like to make it appear.

 

i agree. its more comparable to a t3 HX40 as far as spool / downlow goes from my experience.

 

This is an Evo 8 also, was your graph an 8 or 9? Your making some pretty blanket statements about turbo spool that relies heavily on other aspects of the particular setup / tuning...

 

evo 8 (my personal evo)

correct.. cams, headwork, exhaust parts, fuel, weather, boost control, etc.. all effect spool.

what lb/min is your ef4 rated at? is it higher then the fp blacks 68lb/min? based on my experience i would say its around 70? it seems to make more top end. have you guys ever benched it?

also on your shop car when it made 720 it was still in twin scroll form right?

 

They haven't benched them (i am almost positive, unless its changed from when I spoke to Chris last).

Yes it was still twin scroll, not some crazy single scroll hogged out bolt on turbo that really doesn't resemble its name.

One thing to note is comparing VD numbers, but more importantly spool characteristics to a dynojet plot or any other dyno isn't a great way to do things. Cars tend to spool different on the street vs. a dyno, especially dynojet not having load on it really.

A mustang/dyno dynamics should get you closer but even then I have seen disparity as no runs are ever the same.

A more restricted motor setup with cams/head work that doesn't flow as well usually shows faster spool/higher torque as well but doesn't make the top end. It's really really tough to compare two setups ever unfortunately.

Same car same day is as close as you can get but changing something like a turbo will make it almost impossible to compare as you should change the tune to optimize it.

In my opinion its an exercise of futility. I don't think you can actually compare anything except by bench testing both back to back on the same test bench. You can't accurately compare them on a car.

 

agreed to everything you said. that said, the ef4 does spool slower then a fp black jb & bb.

i want Chris to answer the lb/min question i asked though. im interested in knowing how much larger it is vs the black.

 

I have run both on my car...ran my black at 38psi on a 2.0L, it spooled slightly faster and made a lot more peak torque as my boost was so much higher. However, the black was on a ported stock exhaust mani, my ef4 is on a MAP tubular mani which gives up quite a bit of spool. however, I am also on a 2.2L now and spool is roughly the same as before. So with extra displacement my spool was roughly unchanged with the EF4 vs. the black however I am an X not an 8/9 so tough to compare.

I will say this, my EF4 doesn't die at all up top, my black had to really really be pushed to make the same power my EF4 made and the EF4 pulls all the way to 9k.

Now I retuned the car and the EF4 makes a lot more power. I matched the blacks power output on 27psi vs 38 psi.

it's for sure bigger and you are right, you give up spool for power, its physics!

 

isn't it amazing what a better tuner can do to a car? now its not overtimed and crying for help.. now your engine will last much longer then your prior engines.

 

I am looking at going from BBK Full to the EF3, I have heard only good things about these EF turbos

 

I haven't updated my numbers since the car has received a few new items and my spool issue has been sorted. The car made 497 hp with 471 torque (corrected on Mustang Dyno in Tucson, AZ) around 27-28 psi. I have managed to misplace my dyno sheet

Kidloco
Fuel- E-85
Walbro 400
MA Performance 2.0L LR (9:1), balance shaft delete
AMS oil pan
Ported and polished head
Stock valves
GSC Beehives
GSC s2 cams
Gates T.B.
Full Race Pro-Stock Manifold
MA Performance EF3 Turbo w/anti surge, Turbo Smart wastegate
Invida o2
JIC TBE w/test pipe
Synapse DV
JMF Intake w/Perrin filter
Nisei full pipe kit
ETS 3.5 intercooler
MIL Spec TB
Stock IM

 

What were the uncorrected numbers ? That is good for low boost.