DING DING DING, we have a winner. You cannot drive in your gauges in a car like this. You get a chance to check them on straights and with a glance... one of the reasons systems like TraqMate are nice, you can get every readout for your car right in front of you with color indicators if something crosses a threshhold. Some stand alone gauges also handle threshhold limits. I still would have thought leet would have noticed the effect of going to 93 octane fuel.... but there is a lot going on out there.

 

I agree. My initial post was not even really directed negatively to leet just informing of how to try to avoid this for people wondering. It was his response to me that made me focus on him. It does only take a small error in a racecar. I agreed with leets own words to test content and expanded that you CAN monitor things without a flex fuel sensor and have a good idea of whats going on. I know he will pay for his mistake just as I have paid for mine as well. Hopefully others can benefit from what he and I have both learned and not make the same mistakes. As usual 03 you are right on!

 

Number one, Ben wasn't driving when this happened. Number two, try road racing and keep an eye on your air fuel gauge in a car as fast as his.

Knock control works but you can only expect so much, his car was set up to add 15% more fuel very quickly under knock conditions and set up to pull 15 degrees of ignition timing (if I remember right) also very quickly. There are multiple things that happened here, number one, the change in fuel completely from E85 (which we tested here and it was E85) to 91 octane, that's a lot to expect from any knock control. An additional problem is a severe rich condition can absolutely cause knock and between going from E85 to 91 already had the car overly rich and then when it knocked it added up to another 15% more fuel, the car should have misfired and felt like crap, I personally can't imagine not being able to feel what was going on, but the driver I do not know or know how much time he's had in the car. Maybe the 400 whp it had left felt fast to him.

We sell a $15 tester for testing E85, that's all anyone needs. Also, unless a huge mistake like this was made a range in fuel from E70 to E98 is not going to blow up an EVO unless it is tune absolutely on the edge of blowing up already on E98 and then switched to E70 and it would have to be an on the edge tune to cause damage even then.

Good luck Ben, thanks for being a stand up guy and not finding the problem and then wanting me to fix it free like I offered. Believe me, there's a lot of guys out there that would have just shipped it to me and played stupid.

 

^ I didnt realize he was not driving that explains a lot, Theres no way in heck you wouldnt be able to feel the difference as you stated.
On another note about the Air fuels my understanding is this car isnt truely 'raced' as in wheel to wheel, it attends lapping days and time attack style events...
At these events the 'warmup lap' is your oppurtunity to run through a check of all systems, I drive a mid 500whp road race car and i have a mental checklist on the warmup laps, boost, AFRs, Temp gauges, knock light, and thats just for the engine.
Ill do a full throttle 2nd gear and watch for issues, seem good okay, 3rd, thumbs up? ok 4th!
You CANNOT take enough precautions at the track period.

I hope you get this thing track worthy soon and do so reliably, it will kill everything once your there.

 

Are you taking legal recourse against the gas station for their error?

 

That is pretty unlikely to eliminate their liability.

 

Especially if it's marked as E85 and actually contains 91 octane. That would probably get them in trouble.

 

i can guarantee there are several laws and regulations that would remove any liability. Thier error would not hurt and car that is flex fuel and it is clearly marked on all E85 pumps that it is for flex fuel vehicles only. The onus is on you to make sure your modified car is set up to work with what comes out of the pump.

I cant stand how everyone thinks they can sue everyone when something doesnt go their way. At least leetEVO seems to be an honest guy who wouldnt take advantage of Dave Buschur and prob will just buck up and rebuild. Good luck leet. I wasnt trying to be a douche and our miscomunication prompted me to respond in a negative way towards you.

 

They legally cannot waive their own liability. I've discussed this at length with my sister... Take it from her she's an attorney.

 

Damn this is shatty! What needs to be replaced?

 

Man that REALLY sucks. Makes me want to be testing the E85 I use. I'm the same way though - I just pour it into the tank and then put the hammer down. My car doesn't have any extra gauges - no time to look at them.

 

Its not being litigious if they dispensed anything other e70 - e85

 

i agree in theory except the fact that the item in question is only intended to be used in a prescribed manner (in a flex fuel car) and any use outside of the prescribed manner the seller is not liable for any damages. If used in the prescribed manner the mistake would have had zero negative effects and would actually just cost the seller money. Now throw in the ability to prove that they sold you that e85 and that it is beyond a doubt what caused the failure when being used in a manner not consistent with its labelling and you are looking at a very small chance of even getting a civil court judge to hear the case. Once you mention "race car" it will be an even bigger hole to climb out of. It would be similar to sue an oxycontin manufacturer because you overdosed on oxycontin because when using it without a prescription to get high. It was supposed to be 500mg and was really 600mg and when you took 5 crushed instead of 1 following the reccomended doses. It was not being used within its prescribed use and if it was the error would not cause any damage. If you got E85 out of a 91 pump on a reg car and your car wouldnt run then you would have a case. In that case they usually pay to have the tank drained and any damages repaired. I have seen it where diesel or ethanol were in the gas pumps by accident. In those cases the fuel was used for its intended purpose and thier error caused damage.

 

Sticker on the pump says no less than 105 octane (R+M)/2...

 

I don't agree with law suits 90% of the time. In this case a pump labeled E85 is suppose to have a minimum ethanol content of 70% and I believe that is a law. I believe Ben is entitled to being reimbursed for the damages..............I also believe anyone running E85 in a performance vehicle is negligent if they aren't checking the ethanol content.