New Bolt in turbo... FP White Rabbit.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 704
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From: NY
Alot of people are asking in relation to upgrading from their 03/04 turbo.
As an MR owner I want to know if my gains by goin to this turbo wouldnt be as lucrative....cause the 05 turbo already has the 10.5 hotside. Thanks!
As an MR owner I want to know if my gains by goin to this turbo wouldnt be as lucrative....cause the 05 turbo already has the 10.5 hotside. Thanks!
Here's a thought, I have a TD05HRA-16G6-9.8t turbo.. Its a TiAl turbo with a 9.8 housing.. Do you think with the smaller housing it will hold decent level of boost up top, but benefit the lower end? I'm debating on whether I want to buy an entire new unit, or send what I have to be upgraded.
Also, I have a 10.5 housing, and an 05 compressor cover sitting here in a box.. Can I send those parts, and get a TiAl CHRA with the WR wheel and mods? (Zeus, PM Me this one since I have spare parts laying around, if it can be done with my spare parts, fairly cheaply, I can order one this week)
Also, I have a 10.5 housing, and an 05 compressor cover sitting here in a box.. Can I send those parts, and get a TiAl CHRA with the WR wheel and mods? (Zeus, PM Me this one since I have spare parts laying around, if it can be done with my spare parts, fairly cheaply, I can order one this week)
Last edited by MalibuJack; Jun 17, 2005 at 08:00 AM.
Okay guys... I'm trying to keep up. 
I've answered a bunch of PM's in the last hour regarding the upgrade options, etc... so let me try to clear things up for everyone.
If you have an 03/04 with the standard 9.8hsg/steel wheel, you can upgrade the compressor side of the unit for $895.00 which will give you the higher flowing compressor of the WR while keeping the heavier wheel and tighter housing. I have no clear data on what this will do to the power levels attainable, but experience tells me that we can expect a loss in high rpm power and a loss of transient boost response with the heavier turbine wheel.
If you already have a 10.5 housing upgrade, then everything remains as above with the exception that high rpm power levels should be close, while still having a loss in transient boost response due to the heavier turbine wheel.
If you currently have a complete TME 10.5/TiAl upgrade, then upgrading the compressor components will yield you a fully functional bunny bolt on.
Summary... if losing some of the top end potential of the full White Rabbit isn't an issue for your performance goals, then simply upgrading the stock 03/04 turbo should be fine and yield you a reasonable gain for the money. I would suspect that getting another 20-30 whp changing nothing else other than tuning is a reasonable educated guess. However, if you're looking for the best that this combination has to offer at this time... I would suggest going for the Full White Rabbit Meal Deal. Basically... you can have your cake and eat it too... or you can have your cake and just lick the frosting. It's up to you.
We will obviously be doing more testing with different combinations in the next few days/weeks and I will continue to post what data we come up with for you guys as I can make it available.
We are currently figuring out the pricing on performing the upgrade swap here at the shop... we already have scheduled appointments for this upgrade. I will try to post the pricing later for those interested or simply feel free to give us a call here at the shop for details on scheduling and whatnot.
If I missed answering any of the latest questions, please let me know.
Back to the dyno... cam testing awaits.
I've answered a bunch of PM's in the last hour regarding the upgrade options, etc... so let me try to clear things up for everyone.
If you have an 03/04 with the standard 9.8hsg/steel wheel, you can upgrade the compressor side of the unit for $895.00 which will give you the higher flowing compressor of the WR while keeping the heavier wheel and tighter housing. I have no clear data on what this will do to the power levels attainable, but experience tells me that we can expect a loss in high rpm power and a loss of transient boost response with the heavier turbine wheel.
If you already have a 10.5 housing upgrade, then everything remains as above with the exception that high rpm power levels should be close, while still having a loss in transient boost response due to the heavier turbine wheel.
If you currently have a complete TME 10.5/TiAl upgrade, then upgrading the compressor components will yield you a fully functional bunny bolt on.
Summary... if losing some of the top end potential of the full White Rabbit isn't an issue for your performance goals, then simply upgrading the stock 03/04 turbo should be fine and yield you a reasonable gain for the money. I would suspect that getting another 20-30 whp changing nothing else other than tuning is a reasonable educated guess. However, if you're looking for the best that this combination has to offer at this time... I would suggest going for the Full White Rabbit Meal Deal. Basically... you can have your cake and eat it too... or you can have your cake and just lick the frosting. It's up to you.
We will obviously be doing more testing with different combinations in the next few days/weeks and I will continue to post what data we come up with for you guys as I can make it available.
We are currently figuring out the pricing on performing the upgrade swap here at the shop... we already have scheduled appointments for this upgrade. I will try to post the pricing later for those interested or simply feel free to give us a call here at the shop for details on scheduling and whatnot.
If I missed answering any of the latest questions, please let me know.
Back to the dyno... cam testing awaits.
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iTrader: (5)
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From: Work - New York, Alaska, Mexico or the Caribbean. -Home - Tx Hill Country
Originally Posted by ForcedPerf
Wow, we never expected such a response to this unit. hopefully an admin has activated this account and I'm not wasting my finger time typing a message that won't be posted due the lack of account activation 
There are a few questions that have been raised repeatedly and I'll try to answer them here, but first I want to thank Tym Switzer for his hard work and excellent tuning skills with the AEM. Tym has long been one of the best dependable power producing AEM tuners inside and outside of 4G63 circles that I know of.
Regarding A-B dyno graphs for stock to WR, we dont have any. We did all of our A-B work against a EVO6.5 TME turbo instead of a stock turbo. The dyno graph below shows RUN 008 for the TME against RUN 027 for the White Rabbit. These runs, like most all the runs we did during testing, were made using race gas at 25psi and 11.5-11.8 A/F ratio.
This graph demonstrates the difference in spool up between the TME turbo and the White rabbit turbocharger on the same engine with all other paramters held constant held constant. It is not a demonstration of an all out glory pull on either unit. The car used in this test was a 2.0 with typical bolton mods.
We understand that most consumers do not use racegas, we also understand that most consumers do not use the AEM EMS. That being said we choose to use both because we need the adjustability and datalogging features of the AEM and the knock protection of the leaded fuel during testing. The results/datalogs of the tuning efforts need to be carefully analyzed, and the test engines need to stay together during the testing. If you damage the engine part way through the testing and rebuild it then you no longer maintain the A-B test. Risking the engine doing repeated exploration of tuning parameters on pump gas does not make sense in the grand scheme of collecting useful comparison data.
For grins and giggles here is a look one of the components of the White Rabbit turbocharger that makes the whole package work, the compressor.
I know there is a voicemail box full of questions, and I will be doing my best to make all the return calls today.
Boost on!
Robert Young
Forced Performance Inc
There are a few questions that have been raised repeatedly and I'll try to answer them here, but first I want to thank Tym Switzer for his hard work and excellent tuning skills with the AEM. Tym has long been one of the best dependable power producing AEM tuners inside and outside of 4G63 circles that I know of.
Regarding A-B dyno graphs for stock to WR, we dont have any. We did all of our A-B work against a EVO6.5 TME turbo instead of a stock turbo. The dyno graph below shows RUN 008 for the TME against RUN 027 for the White Rabbit. These runs, like most all the runs we did during testing, were made using race gas at 25psi and 11.5-11.8 A/F ratio.
This graph demonstrates the difference in spool up between the TME turbo and the White rabbit turbocharger on the same engine with all other paramters held constant held constant. It is not a demonstration of an all out glory pull on either unit. The car used in this test was a 2.0 with typical bolton mods.
We understand that most consumers do not use racegas, we also understand that most consumers do not use the AEM EMS. That being said we choose to use both because we need the adjustability and datalogging features of the AEM and the knock protection of the leaded fuel during testing. The results/datalogs of the tuning efforts need to be carefully analyzed, and the test engines need to stay together during the testing. If you damage the engine part way through the testing and rebuild it then you no longer maintain the A-B test. Risking the engine doing repeated exploration of tuning parameters on pump gas does not make sense in the grand scheme of collecting useful comparison data.
For grins and giggles here is a look one of the components of the White Rabbit turbocharger that makes the whole package work, the compressor.
I know there is a voicemail box full of questions, and I will be doing my best to make all the return calls today.
Boost on!
Robert Young
Forced Performance Inc
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From: Port Saint Lucie, FL (South FL)
Originally Posted by NYREDEVO
Everbody keeps throwin the term "bolt on" arround...how complicated is the install on this?
Means you bolt your stock turbo off - and bolt this one instead. Fairly simple procedure.
WR power
From the looks of the graph, I am not sure this is strong enough for me.
First is the fact that the baseline car can only get 330 AWHP on a Dynojet with a TME and supporting mods!!!! What mods exactly?
My car did 322 with the hot side, O2 housing, 3" exhaust, high flow cat, Xede, 264/272,cam gears & fuel pump on a Mustang Dyno.
According to this, it looks like the WR turbo would give me 35-40 HP in the mid and about 60 from 6500 on. That would make it around 360-370 AWHP. A 3071 would around 425 AWHP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a big difference for not such a big $ variance.
I would like to see a fully modded TME car/hot side etc car. baseline, a WR swap to tell what it does and a 3071 chart. Someone here could put all the data on the same grap and we could analyze the value.
Sigfrid
First is the fact that the baseline car can only get 330 AWHP on a Dynojet with a TME and supporting mods!!!! What mods exactly?
My car did 322 with the hot side, O2 housing, 3" exhaust, high flow cat, Xede, 264/272,cam gears & fuel pump on a Mustang Dyno.
According to this, it looks like the WR turbo would give me 35-40 HP in the mid and about 60 from 6500 on. That would make it around 360-370 AWHP. A 3071 would around 425 AWHP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like a big difference for not such a big $ variance.
I would like to see a fully modded TME car/hot side etc car. baseline, a WR swap to tell what it does and a 3071 chart. Someone here could put all the data on the same grap and we could analyze the value.
Sigfrid
Vehicle as tested:
Stock Engine (Stock internals, stock cylinder head, stock camshafts)
FP White Rabbit Upgrade Turbo
Hallman MBC
Denso 660 cc Injectors
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Stock Airbox w/KN drop in panel filter
Custom 3" intake pipe to stock airbox
Tial BOV on stock intercooler plumbing
Stock FMIC w/stock plumbing
AEM EMS (Speed Density, No MAF)
Stock Ignition (Plugs gapped down to .018 to prevent misfires)
3" Downpipe, offroad pipe, modified HKS catback exhaust
No alcohol injection or intercooler sprayer
Stock Engine (Stock internals, stock cylinder head, stock camshafts)
FP White Rabbit Upgrade Turbo
Hallman MBC
Denso 660 cc Injectors
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Stock Airbox w/KN drop in panel filter
Custom 3" intake pipe to stock airbox
Tial BOV on stock intercooler plumbing
Stock FMIC w/stock plumbing
AEM EMS (Speed Density, No MAF)
Stock Ignition (Plugs gapped down to .018 to prevent misfires)
3" Downpipe, offroad pipe, modified HKS catback exhaust
No alcohol injection or intercooler sprayer
Hello fellow addicts,
I would like to let everyong know that we really appreciate the response to this new turbocharger, and that our website will soon reflect the technical info available on the unit. With the light speed of the internet - we have not been able to keep up with the request for information regarding this turbocharger and the people posting tech data for the turbo in this thread have been doing the members of the EvoM community a great service by collecting all available info in one spot for all to see!
Our initial on hand quantity of turobchargers has now been fully depleted. We are proceeding at the highest rate we can to keep up with demand on the unit. Unfortunately this is a handbuilt custom unti that is very labor intensive, not to mention the ridiculous amount of time required on a VERY expensive machine to cut each wheel from a log of ultra high strength aluminum. Regretably there is no other way to manufacture this wheel, the desirable aerodynamic properties of the wheel can not be achieved through a casting process
We are proceeding a WOT with production of this unit, but currently there exists a backlog of new orders such that any new orders placed as of this morning have a ship date of July 1st.
Thanks! and remember - All you boost are belong to us!
Robert Young
Forced Performance Inc
I would like to let everyong know that we really appreciate the response to this new turbocharger, and that our website will soon reflect the technical info available on the unit. With the light speed of the internet - we have not been able to keep up with the request for information regarding this turbocharger and the people posting tech data for the turbo in this thread have been doing the members of the EvoM community a great service by collecting all available info in one spot for all to see!
Our initial on hand quantity of turobchargers has now been fully depleted. We are proceeding at the highest rate we can to keep up with demand on the unit. Unfortunately this is a handbuilt custom unti that is very labor intensive, not to mention the ridiculous amount of time required on a VERY expensive machine to cut each wheel from a log of ultra high strength aluminum. Regretably there is no other way to manufacture this wheel, the desirable aerodynamic properties of the wheel can not be achieved through a casting process
We are proceeding a WOT with production of this unit, but currently there exists a backlog of new orders such that any new orders placed as of this morning have a ship date of July 1st.
Thanks! and remember - All you boost are belong to us!
Robert Young
Forced Performance Inc
Originally Posted by ruzs
I would like to see a fully modded TME car/hot side etc car. baseline, a WR swap to tell what it does and a 3071 chart. Someone here could put all the data on the same grap and we could analyze the value.
Sigfrid
Sigfrid
Also, I will have my AMS 3071 turbo kit being tuned. It should be interesting to see what kind of power can be made with an Xede.