i really don't think he is saying that GSC are better they just been more consistant in it gains from one car to the next but the cossie cams some make power some dont make that much but u see it all consistancy i want to know what i pay for and don't want it to be a surprise

 

I am sure that manufacturing tolerances of cosi cams have less variation than mappers who are unable to extract power from it or the power gains are 'blocked' by the wrong combination of parts causing a restriction. I personally haven't seen a thread where the customer was unable to extract some power from cosi cams - perhaps you would be kind enough to provide me a link...

I don't want to go off tangent here, but there are also many people who were not able to gain anything worthwhile from the FP evogreen turbo as well. Most likely, they do not have the necessary combination of parts and/or the right mapper to make it work. Just to give an example: I wrote to DB to see if I could gain from the 20G-LT. His response was that I had the minimum amount of parts he would recommend for a turbo upgrade and that he prefers a standalone before/with any turbo upgrade

 

when i was referring to crappy 93 i meant that, that particular fill-up was bad from a Sunoco gas station... Stopped using that particular gas station and now i am using a brand new Shell with new pumps and everything. The car works much better...

Plus i have 5 gallons of torco racing fuel concentrate just to "correct" the octane in the gas even when i am running only 23psi on a daily basis...

 

Warrtalon:

Where are these weak dynographs and dissapointed customers that you've seen? I have not seen them. Admittedly, I spend much less time here than you and I may have missed some discussion on the Cosworth's. Also, I think that to expect an increase of 30hp/30tq (throughout the band) from cams is unrealistic, even on an Evo VIII. In the AMS thread about the GSC cams, they (AMS) said that the average gains for an Evo with the stock turbo with pump gas was 10-15hp.

 

^^^ yeah, but the GSC S1's shine more in the midrange +23whp/26wtq, starting around 4200 and dying down back to stock fully by 6800, based off the same AMS test you're referring to...

 

Anyone try out the new Tomei pon cams? The pro cams should be coming out in June.

 

I think I just have bad combo with some parts That's all I dout cosworth are no doing anything I do believe they do make 10 15 whp and make tq you can see on the graph the hp stays up the exhaust part the reason I bought that is just because ti is to loud and no didn't pay 800 for the exhaust I bought the exhaust same price I sold the ti exhaust for I didn't want a loud exhaust nor did I want a stock one on sean said the exhaust might be holding you back a little probably like having a cat and my gas wasent all good either

 

What have cars with similar mods to yours made on that dyno?

 

sean ivey tuned my friends car and he was getting 8-10 counts of knock through the whole powerband......

 

I'm going to change my intake to hks like sean said he was always happy with that intake
Add

gt spec manifold
ebay 02 housing
ams licp

Hopefully it would give me another

10-15 whp 10-15 tq

Ill be happy

 

Yeah I had a little knock also

 

Why knock though?

sometimes getting 1-2 knock counts while overboosting (spiking) it makes sense and probably it is not a real knock. With the torco i don't even see that even when i am having 24-25 psi spikes... absolutely 0 knock counts...

8-10 it is too much... Especially throughout the whole powerband, something must be wrong!

Does anyone remember in how many knockcounts the car is pulling 1 degree timing? i think its every 4...

i assume that at 10 knockcounts the car pulls 2-3 degrees timing, plus it goes to the low octane map...

2-3 degress of timing at the right places worth plenty of whp...

Personally anything over 2 knock counts is unacceptable...

 

Piper - you seem to be filled with a lot of anger and negativity as of late - which is odd considering that Clay is a fellow Ex-Marine, I would suggest that you read what he has to say with a more open mind and he is a very dedicated and and informed Evo hobiest - anyway . . . .

In life all man made parts are filled with compromise, nothing man crafts has the perfection of a natural (god made) such as a sunset or a living being.

When he says "not so good" Clay means "COMPROMISED"

For example

The ideal exhaust on a turbo car is a direct 5" tube about 6 " long off the turbo angled in the direction of the car's air flow

As you make an exhaust that directs flow underneath the car and out the back and which also silences some of the sound you start to LOOSE SOME POWER

Generally, the quieter an exhuast the less power it will make

When Clay says "not so good" I believe he means "not optimal for peak power"

That does NOT mean that the exhuast will make NO power and / or is NO GOOD - it means that this customer may have selected an exhuast system which conatines some design features intended to lower the sound level which also may be effecting peak power production as well

As I have said - in life MAN MADE parts are always a series of compromises

To summarize - the design of automotive performance exhuasts involves the balancing of competing goals - power delivery and sound reduction - all manufactuers approach this science in their own manner. The power potential of a particular unit depends upon its design features which I have discussed at greant length elsehwere.

 

Sadly, I think many customers purchase exhuasts based upon the recomendation of parts sellers who may have little or no tuning experience.

I think back to my formative days in the turbo import tuning world and often most of my purchases were made with little insight as to the relative benefits and advantages of different brands.

In many cases having a quiet exhuast is a great idea - e.g. if you live in a area where cops are handing out loud exhaust tickets, etc,

My point - is to inform the evo community that the design of an exhuast involves a balancing of features between sound, volume and power potential.

MORE attention should be given to the selection of the right exhuast

Sadly, most 19 year old parts sellers argue with me and say that "a 3" exhuast is a 3" exhuast"

if you keep buying your parts from those same 19 year old "experts" then continued medicorce power results on the dyno should be expected.

I have a suggestion - evo members - before you buy parts - call Sean, Myself or David Buschur, etc and ask US what to get

Just my two cents

 

Your point is irrelevant without more data, does it constantly give 8 - 10 knock counts ? Was this on the dyno or road ? Has he recently changed fuels ?

A good tuner balances the tune with a given tank of gas to achieve a desired powre level and saftey level

If the car picks up a weaker tank of gas it can and should pick up some knock counts - this is how the ecu protects the engine and it goes a very effective job of doing so

If a tuner tuned a car for zero knock counts ever no matter which gas you get - the car would be very weak

The stock car can and does frequently exhibit knock counts all the time

The art in tuning is to feel the way to make the engine run very quiet and make more power with less knock counts, this takes experience and talent