Full-Race Twinscroll 35R
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Europe
The smaller turbo has much more low end and makes more power from 2-4k than the 35r does. I auto-cross the car so this was important to me. I loved the 35r and it did alright at the auto-cross just not as good as this turbo.
Back on topic....
All I am trying to say is the GT series spool is not impressive, I would love to try this manifold with another turbo! This manifold will help spool I will agree and will definitely say it is a very nice piece. Just would like to see some tests with another turbo is all.
~Zach
The smaller turbo has much more low end and makes more power from 2-4k than the 35r does. I auto-cross the car so this was important to me. I loved the 35r and it did alright at the auto-cross just not as good as this turbo.
Back on topic....
All I am trying to say is the GT series spool is not impressive, I would love to try this manifold with another turbo! This manifold will help spool I will agree and will definitely say it is a very nice piece. Just would like to see some tests with another turbo is all.
~Zach
Back on topic....
All I am trying to say is the GT series spool is not impressive, I would love to try this manifold with another turbo! This manifold will help spool I will agree and will definitely say it is a very nice piece. Just would like to see some tests with another turbo is all.
~Zach
How did you get your 35R to make the same boost at the same RPM? Either your 35R was a freak or you have a laggy s256? does it not seem almost impossible for what you stated to be true?
The rev-hard is probably the most comprimised manifold besides the stock one. The things it has going for it are cost, cast, and possibly quick spool due to the volume.
Scorke
Garrett is the LEADER in automotive turbo applications. What is propietary on the s256 that gives it an inherent advantage over a Garrett turbo?
How did you get your 35R to make the same boost at the same RPM? Either your 35R was a freak or you have a laggy s256? does it not seem almost impossible for what you stated to be true?
The rev-hard is probably the most comprimised manifold besides the stock one. The things it has going for it are cost, cast, and possibly quick spool due to the volume.
Scorke
How did you get your 35R to make the same boost at the same RPM? Either your 35R was a freak or you have a laggy s256? does it not seem almost impossible for what you stated to be true?
The rev-hard is probably the most comprimised manifold besides the stock one. The things it has going for it are cost, cast, and possibly quick spool due to the volume.
Scorke
I had HKS 264's with gt35r spooled up very fast and with my 2.3 it helped it even more. (adding the 30r only gained like 200 rpm in spool up with less gains up top)
I agree Rev-hard manifold is the most compromised manifold but it is perfect for my application.
Back on topic...
I would LOVE to see this manifold with another turbo! I am thinking of going to a tubular manifold soon and want to see what this would do on some other turbos.
~Zach
If what you're using is flanged for a t3 or t4 and has a twin volute entry hotside, it should work (assuming it is geometrically sized similarly to the GT turbos so you don't run into clearance issues with the downpipe).
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
If what you're using is flanged for a t3 or t4 and has a twin volute entry hotside, it should work (assuming it is geometrically sized similarly to the GT turbos so you don't run into clearance issues with the downpipe).
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
kthx.
If what you're using is flanged for a t3 or t4 and has a twin volute entry hotside, it should work (assuming it is geometrically sized similarly to the GT turbos so you don't run into clearance issues with the downpipe).
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
As for making 25psi by 4k on the Gt35, do you have datalogs of this or is it looking at a boost gauge? With the BW turbo, you are running 26 psi on 93 with no Meth/H20 and making 360 whp? Does this dyno have a similar run with a gt30 turbo on pump gas with roughly the same boost?
Remember I have a built motor and they will take a lot more boost without having to add meth or H20 to prohibit knock conditions. I actually ran a max of 30psi that day at the dyno but did not see any benefit running it as my HKS EVC ATM only runs 29psi and kept on boost cutting to stop from hitting the limit.
I will have to ask Chad to see if he can chime in here and back me up on what I am saying. He probably has a 30r chart on the dyno somewhere. This dyno is a heartbreaker and is very similar to BR's dyno but reads a hair lower than his! So making 360tq on this dyno is no joke! He is a stand up guy and I am sure you guys have seen pictures of his place....amazing.
~Zach
I do have datalogs and all with the 35r and can prove this, I am on my work computer and will post up logs later tonight, however I am going to start a new thread as this is referencing something off topic.
Remember I have a built motor and they will take a lot more boost without having to add meth or H20 to prohibit knock conditions. I actually ran a max of 30psi that day at the dyno but did not see any benefit running it as my HKS EVC ATM only runs 29psi and kept on boost cutting to stop from hitting the limit.
I will have to ask Chad to see if he can chime in here and back me up on what I am saying. He probably has a 30r chart on the dyno somewhere. This dyno is a heartbreaker and is very similar to BR's dyno but reads a hair lower than his! So making 360tq on this dyno is no joke! He is a stand up guy and I am sure you guys have seen pictures of his place....amazing.
~Zach
Remember I have a built motor and they will take a lot more boost without having to add meth or H20 to prohibit knock conditions. I actually ran a max of 30psi that day at the dyno but did not see any benefit running it as my HKS EVC ATM only runs 29psi and kept on boost cutting to stop from hitting the limit.
I will have to ask Chad to see if he can chime in here and back me up on what I am saying. He probably has a 30r chart on the dyno somewhere. This dyno is a heartbreaker and is very similar to BR's dyno but reads a hair lower than his! So making 360tq on this dyno is no joke! He is a stand up guy and I am sure you guys have seen pictures of his place....amazing.
~Zach
Scorke
~Zach
~Zach
My power mods are:
Revolvers, head studs, AEM Tru Boost, FR vertical IC, Buschur 3" exh, UICP, 3" air intake, 1000cc injectors, CBR COP setup, exedy HD Twin Disk.
I removed a Buschur Deluxe FMIC, downpipe, FR Prostock mani, 10.5 hotside w/ O2 housing. With that setup I was happy and didn't plan to change anything else because I wasn't willing to accept the negatives for more HP.
Now, the throttle response is much better and power comes on and builds very linearly. It is smoother and much more enjoyable to drive. The sudden drop in speed after lifting off the throttle is decreased. There is noticeably less engine braking. The new setup feels better down low and is much better up top. From a guy that didn't want to change the stock turbo, this was definitely the way to go.
Revolvers, head studs, AEM Tru Boost, FR vertical IC, Buschur 3" exh, UICP, 3" air intake, 1000cc injectors, CBR COP setup, exedy HD Twin Disk.
I removed a Buschur Deluxe FMIC, downpipe, FR Prostock mani, 10.5 hotside w/ O2 housing. With that setup I was happy and didn't plan to change anything else because I wasn't willing to accept the negatives for more HP.
Now, the throttle response is much better and power comes on and builds very linearly. It is smoother and much more enjoyable to drive. The sudden drop in speed after lifting off the throttle is decreased. There is noticeably less engine braking. The new setup feels better down low and is much better up top. From a guy that didn't want to change the stock turbo, this was definitely the way to go.
The previous dyno was with a stock turbo + 10.5 hotside and O2 housing. That made a best of 338 with the same cam gear settings, both on 93 pump @ 22psi.
Ivey told me he couldn't believe the spool and I have to agree. The throttle response is amazing and the car just comes alive on part throttle. We didn't do a race gas pull because I haven't decided if I would use C16 or meth and didn't want to waste Sean's time.
So far the benefits are:
The car feels so responsive, a dyno just can't tell the story
much more midrange pull
a ton more top end, even on pump
The car sounds sick at idle, every stop light gets people looking.
It feels really different on decel, the engine braking is less than half of what it was with the stock turbo. (Geoff should include brake pads)
Makes much better use of the 5 speed gearing
Great DD or street car setup.
Ivey told me he couldn't believe the spool and I have to agree. The throttle response is amazing and the car just comes alive on part throttle. We didn't do a race gas pull because I haven't decided if I would use C16 or meth and didn't want to waste Sean's time.
So far the benefits are:
The car feels so responsive, a dyno just can't tell the story
much more midrange pull
a ton more top end, even on pump
The car sounds sick at idle, every stop light gets people looking.
It feels really different on decel, the engine braking is less than half of what it was with the stock turbo. (Geoff should include brake pads)
Makes much better use of the 5 speed gearing
Great DD or street car setup.
.. i love the twinscroll sound toothanks for the 30R dyno plot. any way we could see the non twinscroll dyno plot for comparison? Is this the 3071 or 3076? what was your max boost? can't wait to see the rest of you testing on the bigger turbos with the necessary supporting mods to make the most of these turbos!
as people make their engines breathe better and better, our turbo kits will make more and more power
I understand that this is your twinscroll kit Geoff, but the twinscroll turbo is not the only thing contributing to the spool here right? I would figure the back door piping which decreased overall lengths in charge pipes have quite a bit to do with it as well or maybe im wrong
If this was a typical third gear pull on a dynojet with 94 degree temps, the spool-up is DEFINITELY, WAY faster than average.... Also, if the stock intercooler was used, it would enhance initial spool up but hinder peak numbers. The peak numbers here on 93 octane are not very impressive, but from the look of the graph, the tune is conservative and smooth.
First, this graph looks really conservative to me. Usually, with zero smoothing, you'd see a rougher graph on pump gas if it was tuned aggressively. I think there is more left on the table. This kit would crush-destroy-humiliate a stock turboed 9. On race gas, this kit would make 500+whp, that is a hundred more than a 9 on race gas.
This was 3rd gear and is the safe tune I requested. This was the final pull before the car came off the dyno. Sean did a considerable amount of road tuning too. I noticed the same thing with the smoothing setting and knew that Sean really did tune for reliability. I don't see a reason to tune for numbers with C16 since I don't ever plan to use it. The car does feel great and meth is now really on my mind...E85 would be if I could get it reliably. I have the FR vertical flow IC, pretty much their entire kit.
Looks to me that the Full Race Kit makes 20more whp/20 more wtq at 4000rpms than the best traditional turbo kit I've ever recorded in 34 degree hotter weather. There are many other variable out there, but this turbo definitely makes great low end power. No doubt whatsoever about that. Next big question for most of us: Let's see if this kit keeps up with the big boys at 30 to 33 psi. Will it make 500+ whp without issue like the Tuning Tech kit, the AMS kit, the Buschur kit, etc.
haha there are a lot of S14s around full-race... the 750whp one is my r14 (awd, stock bottom end RB26 with a 42R @ 24 psi). the 600whp one actually did that on our T3/T67 HO DBB .63 a/r (aka gt37R), but we have since switched that car out to a twinscroll 30R. while it only makes 460whp, it is so much more fun to drive compared to the 37R, and i never drag race the car anyway. The throttle reponse lets you flick the car anywhere you want it, get it sideways, keep it straight, whatever... since it is driven on the street alot, its just the most fun all around setup ive ever had on the car. engine setup is a 100% stock bottom end with a greddy oil pan. 100% stock head ports, just some tomei 264s, ferrea springs/retainers and rocker arm stoppers
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Sep 7, 2007 at 05:33 PM.
we are seeing the affects on our car... 30psi on 93 on our 35R with gt67 comp wheel, 499whp on pump 411wtq....
Phenems car spooled EXCEPTIONALLY well on our dyno... and he has ALOT less headwork than we do...
im curious about the TS setup on the 35R... but for now, im happy with what we have...
ill post Zachs chart compared to another similarly sized turbo shortly.
(i do feel Garret is far superior to any other brand, but I am biased because the race cars i drove used them)
cb
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Yes Garretts BB cartridges are good its just that some turbine and compressor combinations are expensive or impossible to get off the shelf .
I think some TR30R's and twin scroll turbine housings are the things to watch . There is so much interest now in the twin scroll turbo arena that Garrett can't really afford to ignore it .
Hopefully with developments in direct chamber injection and even cleaner fuels manufacturers can get away from the high exhaust manifold pressure induced "exhaust gas recirculation" and lean towards TS systems to get "clean power".
I think then we'll see more OEM TS turbo engines and organisations like Garrett will be expected to make more road car sized TS turbos - and divided twin valve gates .
Cheers A .
I think some TR30R's and twin scroll turbine housings are the things to watch . There is so much interest now in the twin scroll turbo arena that Garrett can't really afford to ignore it .
Hopefully with developments in direct chamber injection and even cleaner fuels manufacturers can get away from the high exhaust manifold pressure induced "exhaust gas recirculation" and lean towards TS systems to get "clean power".
I think then we'll see more OEM TS turbo engines and organisations like Garrett will be expected to make more road car sized TS turbos - and divided twin valve gates .
Cheers A .
