MY poor car is all tore apart
I would stay away from the total seal rings. Nothing but bad things from them in the honda world.. but they might be better in the 4g63 motors. 
It seems like the V8 guys have zero issues with them and the import crowd have nothing but issues with them.. Total Seal = Total ****
In the cases of CP or JE, I think you will have the best performance using the piston rings they supply you. A cheap ring would make their pistons perform poorly so I feel the rings they supply are quite good.
It seems like the V8 guys have zero issues with them and the import crowd have nothing but issues with them.. Total Seal = Total ****
In the cases of CP or JE, I think you will have the best performance using the piston rings they supply you. A cheap ring would make their pistons perform poorly so I feel the rings they supply are quite good.
There is as much value in the journey as the endpoint.
It is virtuous to have someone who is a courageous, genuinely nice guy who is willing to take on the headaches, and allow the rest of us share in his experiences without incurring the hassles and expenses. The content of this forum is FAR more interesting and valuable when someone shares the successes AND the failures of his project.
Nothing so outrageous as Paul's project is attained without setbacks, and there is a great deal to be learned from understanding the cause of those setbacks and successfully overcoming them. Whomever should think for a minute that others around this level have not and do not experience setbacks and failures is living in a fantasy world.
Paul may have broken a few parts, but he's forged many more friendships.
It is virtuous to have someone who is a courageous, genuinely nice guy who is willing to take on the headaches, and allow the rest of us share in his experiences without incurring the hassles and expenses. The content of this forum is FAR more interesting and valuable when someone shares the successes AND the failures of his project.
Nothing so outrageous as Paul's project is attained without setbacks, and there is a great deal to be learned from understanding the cause of those setbacks and successfully overcoming them. Whomever should think for a minute that others around this level have not and do not experience setbacks and failures is living in a fantasy world.
Paul may have broken a few parts, but he's forged many more friendships.
[QUOTE=Lucas English;5087234]Well we really have no idea how many BR or AMS motors ever have problems because they would never be allowed to hit the board and if they did they will be erased with in a half hour. I know AL is on at least his 2nd motor and Shep has been through one. I feel the things that there motor failed from would have happened to anyone motors.
[QUOTE]
Lucas
You "know" that "Al" is on his second motor - what does that mean ?
I have been racing my Evo since 2003 when they came out - I was the first to go 11's on the stock turbo in April of 2003 and the first to install a large turbo in the States (Modifed Magazine 2003). I have taken my motor in and out dozens of times - its all part of the game for those who like to modify cars.
All I can say is that since Buschur Racing has been doing my motors, I have had zero rod bearing problems, zero black death, and a lot of runs, dyno time and testing under my belt. If I continue to press close to 1,000 whp I would expect that on occassion things may break like the crower rod that snapped in half clean last summer - part of making big power.
I would not expect Buschur Racing to tell everyone on the forum specifically what he does to the engines to make them so good. After all, he spent 15 long years of trial and error to learn everything he knows which makes him the world's foremost 4G63 expert. While its great to see people who share everything they do, I can also respect people who like to run a business and provide a service for a reasonable price.
Al
[QUOTE]
Lucas
You "know" that "Al" is on his second motor - what does that mean ?
I have been racing my Evo since 2003 when they came out - I was the first to go 11's on the stock turbo in April of 2003 and the first to install a large turbo in the States (Modifed Magazine 2003). I have taken my motor in and out dozens of times - its all part of the game for those who like to modify cars.
All I can say is that since Buschur Racing has been doing my motors, I have had zero rod bearing problems, zero black death, and a lot of runs, dyno time and testing under my belt. If I continue to press close to 1,000 whp I would expect that on occassion things may break like the crower rod that snapped in half clean last summer - part of making big power.
I would not expect Buschur Racing to tell everyone on the forum specifically what he does to the engines to make them so good. After all, he spent 15 long years of trial and error to learn everything he knows which makes him the world's foremost 4G63 expert. While its great to see people who share everything they do, I can also respect people who like to run a business and provide a service for a reasonable price.
Al
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From: Team English Racing
There is as much value in the journey as the endpoint.
It is virtuous to have someone who is a courageous, genuinely nice guy who is willing to take on the headaches, and allow the rest of us share in his experiences without incurring the hassles and expenses. The content of this forum is FAR more interesting and valuable when someone shares the successes AND the failures of his project.
Nothing so outrageous as Paul's project is attained without setbacks, and there is a great deal to be learned from understanding the cause of those setbacks and successfully overcoming them. Whomever should think for a minute that others around this level have not and do not experience setbacks and failures is living in a fantasy world.
Paul may have broken a few parts, but he's forged many more friendships.
It is virtuous to have someone who is a courageous, genuinely nice guy who is willing to take on the headaches, and allow the rest of us share in his experiences without incurring the hassles and expenses. The content of this forum is FAR more interesting and valuable when someone shares the successes AND the failures of his project.
Nothing so outrageous as Paul's project is attained without setbacks, and there is a great deal to be learned from understanding the cause of those setbacks and successfully overcoming them. Whomever should think for a minute that others around this level have not and do not experience setbacks and failures is living in a fantasy world.
Paul may have broken a few parts, but he's forged many more friendships.
Thxs for the support guys!So what me and Lucas were talking about is we feel the black death was caused by me running the motor down the track hot. The radiator i had in Vegas in the middle of summer(100 + deg) and my temps being around 215deg than shutting the motor off right away after each run must have caused the black death on the pistons. Ive got a better radiator solution in the works.
We had bearings problems from the get go now there all solved! None to date
We had head gasket issue in the beginning now we have none with the help of AMS and Shep We had clutch issues now they are solved with the help of Shep and others My point is we are getting there and we have a few more bugs to work out
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 107
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From: CapeCod, MA
we raced a small block ford powered mustang that weighs in at 3465 with driver due to class rules that has run a best of 8.897@155.4 mph with a 72mm turbo. I will tell you the most unreliable piston rings we have ever used in our domestic were total seal rings, we allways had unevan cylinder leakdown tests with them. Switched to Speed Pro Hellfire rings recomended by some Alky guys at the track one day and have never had an issue with ring seal since, and I know they are optional rings from Arias and CP both. I know this may sound bad for a mechanic to say but my daily driven boosted honda has had them with CP pistons in it for over three yrs and only 3 oil changes on the motor and the highest leakdown on the cylinders is 8% the rest are 6%, Honda states 15-17% is normal.
FWIW, success with TS rings appears to be heavily dependent upon a 'dry' break in procedure. I've seen it emphasized by those who use them successfully that unless sufficient care is seen to do this, they will never seat properly.
Just FYI
Just FYI
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: canton, oh
Well we really have no idea how many BR or AMS motors ever have problems because they would never be allowed to hit the board and if they did they will be erased with in a half hour. I know AL is on at least his 2nd motor and Shep has been through one. I feel the things that there motor failed from would have happened to anyone motors.
Paul and I do work very close. You have to remember I am the 4th shop Paul has been to and I am the only one who has even gotten him close to his Goal. The amount of $$ with me is still less then the other shops combined. Most any mistake I feel we could have avoided I have fixed for free or hooked him up very well.
Well we are going to give the 10:1 a try and I feel with the extra wall clearance running the motor cooler it will work better. I am sure we will let you guy know how it works through out the year.
Another thing I am thinking of trying like is the Total Seal Rings. My Machine guy say we could be beating the Maley out of these rings and that it could be sticking to the wall caucusing the black death to be worse.
Anyway I assure you Paul is not paying top $$ for this work and we are learning in the process and will figure it out in the end. So you can either be a help to the team in figuring out the small tricks our you can keep telling us to give up which will not happen.
Paul and I do work very close. You have to remember I am the 4th shop Paul has been to and I am the only one who has even gotten him close to his Goal. The amount of $$ with me is still less then the other shops combined. Most any mistake I feel we could have avoided I have fixed for free or hooked him up very well.
Well we are going to give the 10:1 a try and I feel with the extra wall clearance running the motor cooler it will work better. I am sure we will let you guy know how it works through out the year.
Another thing I am thinking of trying like is the Total Seal Rings. My Machine guy say we could be beating the Maley out of these rings and that it could be sticking to the wall caucusing the black death to be worse.
Anyway I assure you Paul is not paying top $$ for this work and we are learning in the process and will figure it out in the end. So you can either be a help to the team in figuring out the small tricks our you can keep telling us to give up which will not happen.
fwiw, i'm not a buschur nut sucker here guys. i don't even run a mitsu car. i build vw's, and stick with what i know. but engine building is a science, not an overnight dream. do you wonder why dave doesn't run 10:1 in his cars? he tried it 10 year ago. realized then, it was the wrong way to make big power on a highly boosted motor. this is back when you saw the turbo badge on a saab and thought, "that cars fast".
i surely hope you're not comparing your learning curve to sheps success. his engine lasted a whole season past what other point chasers last. running 7's is not even close to the same park as 9's. even 8's. you guys are just reaching now.
best of luck reinventing the wheel. i giggle everytime i read about your car. and laugh knowing 300whp less with dot tires runs within .20/sec of you.
Last edited by under_boost; Dec 24, 2007 at 01:09 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
From: CapeCod, MA
So far all the engine builders I know use WD40 for assembly lube when using the Total seal rings because they require a very high amount of friction for the first few seconds of life to get the best seal and some of them even use sae3 or 5 weight racing oil for the first start up as well just to give them a better chance of sealing.
drop the total seals in. add the extra clearance. i already know how the next engine will look.
fwiw, i'm not a buschur nut sucker here guys. i don't even run a mitsu car. i build vw's, and stick with what i know. but engine building is a science, not an overnight dream. do you wonder why dave doesn't run 10:1 in his cars? he tried it 10 year ago. realized then, it was the wrong way to make big power on a highly boosted motor. this is back when you saw the turbo badge on a saab and thought, "that cars fast".
i surely hope you're not comparing your learning curve to sheps success. his engine lasted a whole season past what other point chasers last. running 7's is not even close to the same park as 9's. even 8's. you guys are just reaching now.
best of luck reinventing the wheel. i giggle everytime i read about your car. and laugh knowing 300whp less with dot tires runs within .20/sec of you.
fwiw, i'm not a buschur nut sucker here guys. i don't even run a mitsu car. i build vw's, and stick with what i know. but engine building is a science, not an overnight dream. do you wonder why dave doesn't run 10:1 in his cars? he tried it 10 year ago. realized then, it was the wrong way to make big power on a highly boosted motor. this is back when you saw the turbo badge on a saab and thought, "that cars fast".
i surely hope you're not comparing your learning curve to sheps success. his engine lasted a whole season past what other point chasers last. running 7's is not even close to the same park as 9's. even 8's. you guys are just reaching now.
best of luck reinventing the wheel. i giggle everytime i read about your car. and laugh knowing 300whp less with dot tires runs within .20/sec of you.
Last edited by DynoFlash; Dec 24, 2007 at 06:20 PM.
Everyone who wants to make 1,000whp is going to break parts. Who ever has the biggest wallet will last the longest.
