Why would a head let you run more boost when the turbo is the limit?

Typically improving head flow once the turbo is the limit just means the boost pressure drops more. It makes power, but generally it means less boost in the end.

 

The 'average Joe' metaphor grows. I love it!!

Weeks from now newbies will be asking, "Hey who's this Joe guy I keep reading about"... This is great.

 

I know right Erkel , I should have just let Mellon say it...I said it and got jumped!!!

 

I agree if a turbo is completely maxed out adding a better flowing head could lower boost and make the same power. But there's other improvements like removing factory casting flaws that can cause hot spots and that might allow you to run a more aggressive tune(AFR/Timing), boost isn't everything. Also pump gas power increases should be nice.


on another note: I used "average bob" one time in another thread, I guess it wasn't as catchy.

 

I don't know if this has been asked but how would this compare to an HTA30r. I know with Dave's car the hta30r made 504whp at 31psi. I'm under the impression that the red will spool sooner but the hta30r .82a/r will have better top end.

 

I asked this question based on my past expierience with v8's. There's been tons of aftermarket manufacturers and head porting services that advertise 50-75whp improvements based on their product. I may have missed it, but I was hoping that the BR stage 3 head had some type of back to back testing on it as well. Maybe the 4g63 doesn't repond as well to a modified head? In fact the 'Ams cam test' thread made some mention of their 'headgames' head being a factor in the results that they provided. I always assumed this head was part of the BR "secret combination" and was willing to give in and go for it.

I'm trying to make my transition from 'Joe' to 'Pro'--- sorry for dragging this off topic a bit. Maybe you can shed some light on what made you decide to go with this unit?

Buschur always preaches that he likes 'stock stuff'... This fpRED really goes with his motto.

 

Just food for thought. DB posted Trents RPM/BOOST at 3656@20psi. Mine was 4125@20psi. That's nearly 500 RPMS slower to get to 20 psi. Probably manifold talking. Now, Trent's car made 27psi @ 4387, Mine made 27 psi @ 4415. Our new build nearly made up for the difference by the time they both hit 27 psi. Not sure for the reasons, but accelleration rate of the engine, airflow, etc. Just good things to consider. The lag doesn't last very long with the new Wilson Manifold.
Added: Thats a 7 psi gain in 300 RPMS. Hope I looked at the numbers right.

 

it's been said that the larger cams aren't as effective on the stock head...it all works together.

I don't recall seeing a before/after dyno with only the head being changed.

If you're asking why I chose BR over AMS for the head I recently ordered it's simple, I run BR parts on my car and didn't want a mixed bag. The AMS parts are fantastic as well I'm sure but BR is cranking out cars trapping 130+ on pump and 140+ on race gas left and right using his parts and that says a lot to me. I'm not a mechanical engineer and frankly don't get too concerned about compressor flow charts and head flow numbers etc...I just go with what's been proven to work and leave the theory and number crunching to the others

 

Nice spool from the Red then on a Joe Average-ish car...Red vs. Green is looking to be an epic one so far. How do you like your power dished out - huge torque or huge power? Tough choice

 

Well said. You have a good head on your shoulders my friend.

 

If I recall correctly, we dyno'd our GREEN setup before the Stage 3 build (w/stage 3 head) and after using the HKS 272's. Actual gain was either 11 whp or 18 whp. That was head being the only 'performance' mod change. The engine was built, but no horsepower in just rods/pistons unless their lighter.

 

i really hope im not dissapointed with this turbo when it gets to my doorstep..

 

Actually, the HTA3076 made 523 whp. Dave said 504 in the test thread but that was a mind bobble. 504 was actually the max torque figure for the HTA35 that was shown on the same chart. When you have 2 turbos overlaid on the same chart with hp and tq for both, you got a real mess to look at.

Anyway, we need more dyno info from the Red at lower boost to answer your question, because the HTA3076 did really well at 22 psi. For that matter we need comparable dyno info on an HTA3076 with the .63 a/r to answer your question, if you really want spool. And for both turbos we need more comparable dyno info on pump gas.

This is one reason why big airplanes cost over 100 million bucks apiece. We actually have to do all this testing stuff and document it. Not just wish for it. Makers of big airplanes often don't "break even" until they've sold about 200 units of a new model, because of the high development costs.

Gary

 

Tom, was Trent's pull in 3rd gear and yours in 4th?

That could be a big factor as well.

 

Its already been posted that the wheel is the same as the 3076 turbo runs and even said that its really rated over 60lb per min. This turbo with race gas or E-85 and ported will go 10's. That is on a rightly modded car and not some everyday car.