As my car sits, at 25psi, I'm making +/- 400hp, my AFR's are 10.8-11.0, need to figure out my narrow band simulation, then I can tune away. Also remember I'm at 5800ft above sea level

 

What exhaust manifold are you running with the T4? does if fit with stock radiator and fans? I know a lot of companies make a t4 manifold that allows you to keep stock radiator and fans. Curious to see how compatible they would be with the EFR turbo as they speculate it is only sutible for the smaller T4 series.

 

Our external-WG Full-Race twinscroll manifold allows you to keep stock radiator and fans with the 7064 and 7670. If you move up to 8374 or 9180 then you need to go to a slim fan.

Our internal-WG twinscroll manifold will require an evo6 rad and slim fan

 

My efr is on my evo III, it's got a custom made manifold.

Go with something Geoff has to offer.

 

any pics? where you able to keep a/c?

 

Thanks Geoff. I was actually looking at that manifold though out my research . Do you have a Manifold for the T3 flange as well? I like the option of the Re-circulating waste gate with .83 A/R.

 

S3s Geoff. Very cool evOsdad. You have pics?

 

So I'm trying to figure out if the 8374 is really a 79lb/min turbo or not....

From what I've seen from the very few people that have even posted numbers its not even close.

I almost would like to trade mine plus cash for a 9180.

 

Everything i have seen puts it at a solid 750whp and then its totally out of breath.

 

Wonder if its the hot side or cold side which is letting it down, one of the lads I know has put down just over 600whp on our equivalent of your 93 Octane with a Skyline running a .92T4 TS EFR8374 which suggests fairly stout flow, though I'd not say as high as 79lb/min on around 20-22psi - though they are going to try a bit m ore boost when they have some boost control issues sorted.

 

Garrett rates their turbochargers pretty differently and you are probably more a custom to that rating method.

Garrett corrects their maps to 85F and 13.95 PSIA inlet pressures (roughly equivalent to 1800' above sea level...or simply the pressure seen on a sea level car when using any decent an air filter that fits in a car). I am not positive on this, but I think BW corrects to 14.7 PSIA and 75F. If I am correct, go ahead and knock 6% off to start with to make up for the difference in standard conditions.

After that, BW looks to rate their turbo based on absolute shaft speed limit where Garrett typically rates it based on maximum airflow that it can sustain above 60% efficiency.

If I'm right on both of these observations, it turns your 79 lb/min rated BW turbo into a 72 lb/min Garrett equivalent.

Realize though, the Garrett can be driven "off the map" and that 72 lb/min Garrett will max out around 75 lb/min at the above mentioned inlet conditions.

Maybe it's a bad understand of this whole thing on my part, but to me, it seems like there is some marketing tricks going on by BW to make their turbos stack up bigger then they really are. This is why it's not that surprising to me they are out spooling their Garrett "equivalents." They simply aren't equivalent and are smaller turbochargers overall.

Here is how I stack them up based on the above information. Now, take in to consideration, you can drive the turbo to the max speed and you will make more power even if efficiency drops below 60%. I simply put up the 60% figure as that's what the Garrett maps go out to, but you can expect a few extra lb/min out of the Garretts in their standard conditions. The BW on the other hand is probably pretty much done at the second row values I've listed.

 

Nice Work!

 

I guess I should point out though that unless you are completely maxing out the turbo, these numbers might not mean much to a lot of the people using these turbochargers.

Although, the 4G63 community as a whole is pretty fond of boost. Most of the other communities would consider a turbo maxed out if you bump into the flow limit around redline. 4G63 guys seem to try and ride the choke flow line from spool up to redline before they decide the turbo is done. AWD and a stout motor make that possible and reasonable where with 2WD, you typically have no use for the kind of torque that comes with that powerband.

Also, I'm talking strictly power above when I say the BW seem to perform smaller then they lead on. What few results we have seen, it seems like the EFR stuff makes more power at a given boost level, until the turbo runs out of air. I think the BW probably has a more efficient turbine to compressor match and will give more usable power when not bumping into the choke flow area. I question if the EFR turbines of comparable flow actually have a lower inertia then the Garretts. However, I think that because they are larger physically, it’s pretty likely they are more efficient overall. I think the balance of lighter materials and higher efficiency, despite being bigger likely gives them the edge on transient response.


Of course, this is mostly hypothetical as 2+ years in there are still only a handful of results to even look at and most aren't that good of comparisions.

 

Efr 7670 looks to be perfect with what I want out of my setup, I hope to see more results

 

Thanks for that really good insight mike.

I'm kinda wondering about getting the turbo setup with a speed sensor to gauge where it really sits at specific boost levels.

Anyway I'm hoping to fire up my car and have it dialed in by the end of the month.