AEM BEWARE!!!, Tuners please look, AEM vs Motech vs Microtech
The issue I have...AEM never told me my car would be the guinea pig "being sent to frank at sfp for testing and evaluation"? what the F*&k is that??? they are using my car as their test mule...im ripiing this **** box out and getting my money back.
As for that turbo, something hit the blade, pure and simple.....could have been a small stone, could have been a metal filing (i.e. broken weld from the IC).
As far as the standalones go, nt to burst anyone's bubble, but there are no magic boxes out there....no matter how much you wish it to be so. I have owned and tuned standalones for the better part of 6 years now, and in that time, I have had a chgance to work with just about every unit on the market, including Microtech, LINK, AEM, Electromotive, Haltech, Motech, Pectel. They all have one thing in common - they all work basically the same, and come with their own drama. Each one of the units, from the cheapest to the most expensive, is only as good as the person tuning it. When each one has come out, its been touted as the best thing since sliced bread by both the shop selling them and the manufacturer. At the end of the day, it takes feedback from the enduser back to the manufacturer to perfect the software, as well as any glitches that there might be. This is especially true when an ecu first comes out. Each one has their own quirks, and things that are not quite 100% (varies by application).
Cold start is one of the hardest things to get working properly on ANY ecu. If you are having cold start issues, it lies 100% in the tuning, and nothing else. Very rarely are these the types of systems that can be installed and left 100% alone....it's not what they are designed for. If thats the what you are after, then honestly, a stock ecu based system is your best bet.
I could relay story after story about my own personal experiences owning and tuning a variety of standalone systems on my own cars over the years. Want to know how long it took me to map the LINK on my own Subaru (with STi engine) 3 years ago? About 75 hours to get it running well. Once I had the ecu figured out and knew what it wanted me to do, no problem, I could map it blind. Microtech? Same deal - I got the car started VERY quickly. Getting it to do anything but break up under boost was a totally different story - again, until we got it figured out, now that car pumps out 500 hp at the wheels from a Subaru EJ22T. Motec? Well, on anything but their most expensive units, they are still DOS based, so its at least 4 or 5 steps before an actual change can be made. The reward though is very stable software (becuase its been out for like 10 years now). The common thread in all of those stories would be there was a problem, or a series of problems, that took ALOT of dialog back and forth to get it working the way I wanted it. Sometimes the manufacturer was ZERO help (LINK), other times, the manufacturer was calling me every 5 minutes or staying on the phone with me well into the night to make sure the changes we were making were having positive effects (Electromotive and Motec).
All too often, people buy a standalone based on what they read on the internet, or what they see others running - thats the worst decision you could possibly make. The BEST way to select such a system is to see what your intended installer uses day in and day out - regardless of the car. You might end up with a unit not as feature laden as some others, but you will end up with a better overall runninf system, with FAR less stress, and most importantly, less downtime.
Adam
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Dec 23, 2003 at 08:51 AM.
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Correct me if I am wrong, but in this case your tuner owes you some BIG time answers.......this is not AEM's lack of communication to you, its your installer's lack of communication to you.
Correct me if I am wrong, but in this case your tuner owes you some BIG time answers.......this is not AEM's lack of communication to you, its your installer's lack of communication to you.
Thanks,
John
Originally posted by Fsmith
After not much sleep, here we are back on project evo, I don't
whats worse the fact that the turbo is damaged or some of the
posts on this thread. As I said before, we will be inspecting the
intercooler this morning for any foreign object. The inlet pipe
is not chrome plated, it is powder coated. I don't really believe
that compressor surge broke the turbo and as for the BOV,
it is a tail 50 mm. I will let the experts at hks make the call on the
turbo. As for backfires making a hole in an exh port, thats a first
but I guess if you port the living hell out of it, make it thin enough
it (might) happen. But with all that in mind, a nitrous backfire
(might) do the same. I thank all who have inputed on this matter
most know what you're talking about (a few have an idea) but with
the help of all, I believe all issues will be worked out.
After not much sleep, here we are back on project evo, I don't
whats worse the fact that the turbo is damaged or some of the
posts on this thread. As I said before, we will be inspecting the
intercooler this morning for any foreign object. The inlet pipe
is not chrome plated, it is powder coated. I don't really believe
that compressor surge broke the turbo and as for the BOV,
it is a tail 50 mm. I will let the experts at hks make the call on the
turbo. As for backfires making a hole in an exh port, thats a first
but I guess if you port the living hell out of it, make it thin enough
it (might) happen. But with all that in mind, a nitrous backfire
(might) do the same. I thank all who have inputed on this matter
most know what you're talking about (a few have an idea) but with
the help of all, I believe all issues will be worked out.
The 2nd one - we thought there was enough material left - BUT - the way i had the rev limiter set it made a sicko back fire that really just blew a hole into the collant jacket like a mini bomb
On my 3rd head - IF I make one - we know now to leave more material there
Its no big deal really - just had it welded up should be as good as new
AND AEM gave me some hints to soften the rev limiter
Finally - Frank - the stock HKS turbos have mega end play in the compressor wheels - they move around very good - - its the design - they dont hit the housing thoigh
This pic looks like outside object or surge
\
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Correct me if I am wrong, but in this case your tuner owes you some BIG time answers.......this is not AEM's lack of communication to you, its your installer's lack of communication to you.
As for that turbo, something hit the blade, pure and simple.....could have been a small stone, could have been a metal filing (i.e. broken weld from the IC).
As far as the standalones go, nt to burst anyone's bubble, but there are no magic boxes out there....no matter how much you wish it to be so. I have owned and tuned standalones for the better part of 6 years now, and in that time, I have had a chgance to work with just about every unit on the market, including Microtech, LINK, AEM, Electromotive, Haltech, Motech, Pectel. They all have one thing in common - they all work basically the same, and come with their own drama. Each one of the units, from the cheapest to the most expensive, is only as good as the person tuning it. When each one has come out, its been touted as the best thing since sliced bread by both the shop selling them and the manufacturer. At the end of the day, it takes feedback from the enduser back to the manufacturer to perfect the software, as well as any glitches that there might be. This is especially true when an ecu first comes out. Each one has their own quirks, and things that are not quite 100% (varies by application).
Cold start is one of the hardest things to get working properly on ANY ecu. If you are having cold start issues, it lies 100% in the tuning, and nothing else. Very rarely are these the types of systems that can be installed and left 100% alone....it's not what they are designed for. If thats the what you are after, then honestly, a stock ecu based system is your best bet.
I could relay story after story about my own personal experiences owning and tuning a variety of standalone systems on my own cars over the years. The common thread in all of those stories would be there was a problem, or a series of problems, that took ALOT of dialog back and forth to get it working the way I wanted it. Sometimes the manufacturer was ZERO help (LINK), other times, the manufacturer was calling me every 5 minutes or staying on the phone with me well into the night to make sure the changes we were making were having positive effects (Electromotive and Motec).
All too often, people buy a standalone based on what they read on the internet, or what they see others running - thats the worst decision you could possibly make. The BEST way to select such a system is to see what your intended installer uses day in and day out - regardless of the car. You might end up with a unit not as feature laden as some others, but you will end up with a better overall runninf system, with FAR less stress, and most importantly, less downtime.
Adam
Correct me if I am wrong, but in this case your tuner owes you some BIG time answers.......this is not AEM's lack of communication to you, its your installer's lack of communication to you.
As for that turbo, something hit the blade, pure and simple.....could have been a small stone, could have been a metal filing (i.e. broken weld from the IC).
As far as the standalones go, nt to burst anyone's bubble, but there are no magic boxes out there....no matter how much you wish it to be so. I have owned and tuned standalones for the better part of 6 years now, and in that time, I have had a chgance to work with just about every unit on the market, including Microtech, LINK, AEM, Electromotive, Haltech, Motech, Pectel. They all have one thing in common - they all work basically the same, and come with their own drama. Each one of the units, from the cheapest to the most expensive, is only as good as the person tuning it. When each one has come out, its been touted as the best thing since sliced bread by both the shop selling them and the manufacturer. At the end of the day, it takes feedback from the enduser back to the manufacturer to perfect the software, as well as any glitches that there might be. This is especially true when an ecu first comes out. Each one has their own quirks, and things that are not quite 100% (varies by application).
Cold start is one of the hardest things to get working properly on ANY ecu. If you are having cold start issues, it lies 100% in the tuning, and nothing else. Very rarely are these the types of systems that can be installed and left 100% alone....it's not what they are designed for. If thats the what you are after, then honestly, a stock ecu based system is your best bet.
I could relay story after story about my own personal experiences owning and tuning a variety of standalone systems on my own cars over the years. The common thread in all of those stories would be there was a problem, or a series of problems, that took ALOT of dialog back and forth to get it working the way I wanted it. Sometimes the manufacturer was ZERO help (LINK), other times, the manufacturer was calling me every 5 minutes or staying on the phone with me well into the night to make sure the changes we were making were having positive effects (Electromotive and Motec).
All too often, people buy a standalone based on what they read on the internet, or what they see others running - thats the worst decision you could possibly make. The BEST way to select such a system is to see what your intended installer uses day in and day out - regardless of the car. You might end up with a unit not as feature laden as some others, but you will end up with a better overall runninf system, with FAR less stress, and most importantly, less downtime.
Adam
And agreed that Electromotive has amazing customer suppport - they basically went back and forth with me re-writing my maps till the problem was fixed - they are really good
LINK cutsomer serice sucks - BUT - the unit worked without a problem on my WRX
AEM is very good - but IMHO - too big and too busy to respond quickly
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
I have owned and tuned standalones for the better part of 6 years now, and in that time, I have had a chgance to work with just about every unit on the market, including Microtech, LINK, AEM, Electromotive, Haltech, Motech, Pectel. They all have one thing in common - they all work basically the same, and come with their own drama. Each one of the units, from the cheapest to the most expensive, is only as good as the person tuning it. When each one has come out, its been touted as the best thing since sliced bread by both the shop selling them and the manufacturer. .
Microtech? Same deal - I got the car started VERY quickly. Getting it to do anything but break up under boost was a totally different story - again, until we got it figured out, now that car pumps out 500 hp at the wheels from a Subaru EJ22T.
I have owned and tuned standalones for the better part of 6 years now, and in that time, I have had a chgance to work with just about every unit on the market, including Microtech, LINK, AEM, Electromotive, Haltech, Motech, Pectel. They all have one thing in common - they all work basically the same, and come with their own drama. Each one of the units, from the cheapest to the most expensive, is only as good as the person tuning it. When each one has come out, its been touted as the best thing since sliced bread by both the shop selling them and the manufacturer. .
Microtech? Same deal - I got the car started VERY quickly. Getting it to do anything but break up under boost was a totally different story - again, until we got it figured out, now that car pumps out 500 hp at the wheels from a Subaru EJ22T.
Just got back from the dyno session at AEM. The car made 340 at the wheels at 13.5 psi with no ignition issues. We didnt get any breaking up till we got to 28 psi. At that point we did the mod to the circuit board mentioned previously. All it involves is clipping off two little electronical thingys (actual technical term yes) on the board. That got us to 32 psi. We got a little more ignition break up at that point so I took out the stock plugs with the stock gap that had 9,500 miles on them. Put in some NGK B8EVs gapped at .025" and it ran clean at 32 psi. 519.5 hp to the wheels fine.
For the guys crying earlier in this thread... do you really think that a company like AEM would leave you all hanging? Seriously, in the day of the internet can you really get away long by screwing your customers like you were accusing them of? No. I will say again, you will not get the level of support, service and genuine concern from any other engine management company as you will from AEM. Maybe it didnt happen quite fast enough for a few of yous. Saturdays and Sundays are typically not good days for tech support :-P But it did happen and it happened well.
If you suspect that you have an early box, contact AEM (you may even need to use a [gasp] telephone [/gasp] to do it. They will take care of you.
More car specific info and basic mods list here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6217
Most notably:
Stock coils, stock ignition, stock plug wires, stock ignitor.
500+ hp dyno video:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e...dyno/500hp.mpg
AEM EMS lead engineer spending a day on the dyno:
Pretty consistent run after run after run, no?
13.5 psi vs. 32 psi:
Mike W
For the guys crying earlier in this thread... do you really think that a company like AEM would leave you all hanging? Seriously, in the day of the internet can you really get away long by screwing your customers like you were accusing them of? No. I will say again, you will not get the level of support, service and genuine concern from any other engine management company as you will from AEM. Maybe it didnt happen quite fast enough for a few of yous. Saturdays and Sundays are typically not good days for tech support :-P But it did happen and it happened well.
If you suspect that you have an early box, contact AEM (you may even need to use a [gasp] telephone [/gasp] to do it. They will take care of you.
More car specific info and basic mods list here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6217
Most notably:
Stock coils, stock ignition, stock plug wires, stock ignitor.
500+ hp dyno video:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e...dyno/500hp.mpg
AEM EMS lead engineer spending a day on the dyno:
Pretty consistent run after run after run, no?
13.5 psi vs. 32 psi:
Mike W
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Congratulations!!! Great numbers...was that in race fuel? what mods are on the car?
Im not being critical but it doesnt seem like the car held the power very long..if you look at other powerbands they seem to start a little sooner and go straight to about 8500 or even more...did u purposely turn your car for this sort of power?
Im not being critical but it doesnt seem like the car held the power very long..if you look at other powerbands they seem to start a little sooner and go straight to about 8500 or even more...did u purposely turn your car for this sort of power?
Originally posted by Mike W
Just got back from the dyno session at AEM. The car made 340 at the wheels at 13.5 psi with no ignition issues. We didnt get any breaking up till we got to 28 psi. At that point we did the mod to the circuit board mentioned previously. All it involves is clipping off two little electronical thingys (actual technical term yes) on the board. That got us to 32 psi. We got a little more ignition break up at that point so I took out the stock plugs with the stock gap that had 9,500 miles on them. Put in some NGK B8EVs gapped at .025" and it ran clean at 32 psi. 519.5 hp to the wheels fine.
For the guys crying earlier in this thread... do you really think that a company like AEM would leave you all hanging? Seriously, in the day of the internet can you really get away long by screwing your customers like you were accusing them of? No. I will say again, you will not get the level of support, service and genuine concern from any other engine management company as you will from AEM. Maybe it didnt happen quite fast enough for a few of yous. Saturdays and Sundays are typically not good days for tech support :-P But it did happen and it happened well.
If you suspect that you have an early box, contact AEM (you may even need to use a [gasp] telephone [/gasp] to do it. They will take care of you.
More car specific info and basic mods list here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6217
Most notably:
Stock coils, stock ignition, stock plug wires, stock ignitor.
500+ hp dyno video:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e...dyno/500hp.mpg
AEM EMS lead engineer spending a day on the dyno:
Pretty consistent run after run after run, no?
13.5 psi vs. 32 psi:
Mike W
Just got back from the dyno session at AEM. The car made 340 at the wheels at 13.5 psi with no ignition issues. We didnt get any breaking up till we got to 28 psi. At that point we did the mod to the circuit board mentioned previously. All it involves is clipping off two little electronical thingys (actual technical term yes) on the board. That got us to 32 psi. We got a little more ignition break up at that point so I took out the stock plugs with the stock gap that had 9,500 miles on them. Put in some NGK B8EVs gapped at .025" and it ran clean at 32 psi. 519.5 hp to the wheels fine.
For the guys crying earlier in this thread... do you really think that a company like AEM would leave you all hanging? Seriously, in the day of the internet can you really get away long by screwing your customers like you were accusing them of? No. I will say again, you will not get the level of support, service and genuine concern from any other engine management company as you will from AEM. Maybe it didnt happen quite fast enough for a few of yous. Saturdays and Sundays are typically not good days for tech support :-P But it did happen and it happened well.
If you suspect that you have an early box, contact AEM (you may even need to use a [gasp] telephone [/gasp] to do it. They will take care of you.
More car specific info and basic mods list here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6217
Most notably:
Stock coils, stock ignition, stock plug wires, stock ignitor.
500+ hp dyno video:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e...dyno/500hp.mpg
AEM EMS lead engineer spending a day on the dyno:
Pretty consistent run after run after run, no?
13.5 psi vs. 32 psi:
Mike W
Were is the blast shield? Or Kevlar bombsuit for the lead tech? j/k 
nice results!
Originally posted by MP5
32 psi Were is the blast shield? Or Kevlar bombsuit for the lead tech? j/k nice results!
32 psi
Were is the blast shield? Or Kevlar bombsuit for the lead tech? j/k nice results!
Originally posted by DynoFlash
looks like a 2wd dyno - eh?
Still a nice result
and nice shifter !!!
looks like a 2wd dyno - eh?
Still a nice result
and nice shifter !!!
Mike W
Originally posted by Pesto360
Congratulations!!! Great numbers...was that in race fuel? what mods are on the car?
Im not being critical but it doesnt seem like the car held the power very long..if you look at other powerbands they seem to start a little sooner and go straight to about 8500 or even more...did u purposely turn your car for this sort of power?
Congratulations!!! Great numbers...was that in race fuel? what mods are on the car?
Im not being critical but it doesnt seem like the car held the power very long..if you look at other powerbands they seem to start a little sooner and go straight to about 8500 or even more...did u purposely turn your car for this sort of power?
It makes 500 hp from 6K to 8k
More car specific info and basic mods list here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=6217
Mike W
Originally posted by Mike W
Yes, 2WD Dynojet, so unfortuntely you can only compare these dyno numbers to every other dyno chart on the planet, not to the moon cheese dynos. To compare to the moon cheese AWD dynos, subtract 200 hp I guess?
Mike W
Yes, 2WD Dynojet, so unfortuntely you can only compare these dyno numbers to every other dyno chart on the planet, not to the moon cheese dynos. To compare to the moon cheese AWD dynos, subtract 200 hp I guess?
Mike W
I wanted to to to the shootout - but the sissies at SCC wont let me in - they only want slow cars in that shoot out - at least thats the impression I got. I was going to drive 3,000 miles out there - beat you all and then drive home - but alas they wont even letr me in the contest - thanks SCC
scc, al and 25 psi yes...
Al,
Drive out and as much as I hate your ***, I will help organize a major protest trauma for scc to haze them...
You are a backdoor bastard anyway but I got to call bs on scc... we will have to find a way to get you in if you come...
I am running 25 psi rock solid on the aem with my gt40 btw...32 psi is sweet... Yes the aem is still the bomb!
Drive out and as much as I hate your ***, I will help organize a major protest trauma for scc to haze them...
You are a backdoor bastard anyway but I got to call bs on scc... we will have to find a way to get you in if you come...
I am running 25 psi rock solid on the aem with my gt40 btw...32 psi is sweet... Yes the aem is still the bomb!
Last edited by gt40; Dec 24, 2003 at 12:09 AM.