AL,

Check your PM's on ALL the boards bro .

 

AMEN to that, but hey the boys look out for each other I guess.

 

always watching i've read every post since it started

 

 

davidbuschur,

IMO you started this **** by being vague and ambigious. Next time post substantial info like dyno charts you're referring to. Anyone that's been here for awhile knows that it's Al and Shiv that post most of the charts.

 

I'm glad that someone else sees through buschur-friedman (bushleague?) marketing tactics. wtf else do people think he was baiting by saying "ignore all the dyno bull****" (paraphrase).

if buschur were such a "classy guy" he would have posted dyno charts and they would they would have spoken for themselves. clearly that wasn't enough.

still waiting to hear why your torque peaks are peaks and not mesas. still waiting to hear why you can't keep it up at redline. yes, on race gas, no octane issues.

 

Oh my God!!!! Dave Aloha from Hawaii. I love this it reminds me of the good out days for Dave a Sean going at it on Talon Digest. I hope to get your products on my new EVO soon.

Luke

 

Oh yeah, lemme see... post the dyno charts because we don't believe you... I believe that is what you're trying to say? Hmmm... Dave Buschur proven track times... Shiv proven...wait I don't think he has proven much at all on the 4G63...


Who's word should we take? Damn that is a good question. It's one thing to question, it's another to just ask for a sheet to see what the whole curve looks like. Personally, I'll take his word for it. The point is, if you like the info, you like the info.

As for Dave starting it... That's immature, any more finger pointing? Maybe you can call me doodie head while your at it because that's a bit immature.

 

Did you really want me to go and find ever single dyno chart that has been referred to on this site and name every shop by name? That is rediculous. Let me do it this way instead. AMS is the only other shop I can think of off the top of my head that has a good dyno curve.

I also didn't immediately post the dyno charts from the pulls because the dyno computer is in the back of our shop. We can't link it to the internet. I do not have a scanner to print the chart and then post it. I was also out of floppy discs to pull the run down and put into my computer where I could post it. We will get them up soon just as I said.

As for our dyno chart and the torque curve. I think I said HORSEPOWER in my original post. All torque curves drop as RPM increases, all.

I also stated that one of the benefits of the re-flash that we were looking for was control over the timing. Timing plays a HUGE roll in torque. With just the AFC, which is the chart you posted, you will see that our HP does NOT drop, it climbs, you somehow forgot to post the matching HP chart from Shivs torque chart. Now that we have some control over the timing we picked up the additional torque that I also stated in the first post.

Read and comprehend all the information before pointing your finger.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

Wow Dave, you mean Torque drops off always?? That's funny, I kinda noticed that it has something to do with HP and torque crossing at somewhere near 5252 RPM.... Kinda makes me wonder if torque and horsepower are mathematically related... Jesus some people don't quite understand the basics and wanna argue the advanced stuff.

 

I went back and looked at the two graphs you posted comparing Shiv's chart to ours. Not a good comparison to prove your point from what I can see.

Yes, Shiv's torque curve is a flatter at the top than ours, and it should be he had control over the timing when we didn't. That is why we wanted to work with the flash. The AFC has no direct control over timing.

Here is a comparison at a few different points of those two charts:

Shiv made 277 ft lbs at 4,000 rpm, that was his peak.
Buschur made 285 ft lbs at 4,000 rpm, we were still climbing.

Shiv made 270 ft lbs at 4500 rpm, yes that is flat.
Buschur made 350 ft lbs at 4500, hmm I'll take the extra 80 ft lbs if it is O.K. with you.

Shiv made 180 ft lbs of torque 7200 rpm
Buschur made 280 ft lbs of torque at 7200, hmm I'll take that 100 extra ft lbs of torque too, if that's O.K. with you.

Yes, a flat torque curve is nice, ours if flatter and HIGHER now with timing control. I don't think however the trade off for flat is worth the trade off for less jsut about everywhere else in the curve.

Before you tell me the two dyno's are different and our dyno is magic let me point something else out too.

From Shiv's peak torque to the 7200 rpm shut off of the pull he LOST 97 ft lbs of torque.

From our (Buschur's) peak torque to the 7200 rpm point we only lost 70 ft lbs of torque.

There, that is a comparison that is fair to both of us. Seperate dyno's measuring the differences of peak to end of pull.

You can also take our pull and put it with our 11.65 time we ran on the stock turbo.

Thanks for letting me study the two charts.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

 

HP and torque are directly related. HP in a correctly tuned engine will continue to climb as RPM climbs. Why do you think they build motorcycles, Indy and Formula One engines to rev so high.

David

 

Dave,

Haven't ever met you, but you don't need to see someone to realize maturity and class.

I know people who have DSM's for years who swear by your products, but swear more by your service and attitude. As a retailer, that's almost as important as your products.

Shiv,
Ignore the forums and focus on the improvement of the sport, not the belittling of other tuners. I've seen your Subaru work, no-one is criticizing your skills, just your attitude.

Regards!

 

Your lack of 4G63 history knowledge is showing my friend and I honestly don't believe you know who you are arguing with. Ten years of tuning, building and racing 4G63's plus 2002 IDRC Pro Class National Champion and the First Diamond Star 4G63 in 12's, 11's, 10's 9's and 8's does earn respect from me.

Some of you guys are embarrassing yourselves by challenging Buschur's claims. He (Buschur) has a solid reputation for being honest and blunt. Dave has proven his designs and parts every weekend over the last few years at the track. No talk, no dyno sheets no bull****... just wins races. Dyno wars... duh....

Speedlimit..

 

OK, you got him on that one.... a dyno chart of a big block Chevy that tops out at 4,500 RPM will probably not show torque falling off as RPM's rise. Wow, you sure showed him who was boss on that one! As he stated, torque ALWAYS falls off as RPM's rise when speaking of a 4g63. Yes the part in bold was added by me....but I think in an EVO thread this would be obvious.

Oh, btw it has nothing to do with the HP/torque formula it has to do with efficency of the engine and head design. Not all engines (Honda S2000 comes to mind) have peak torque below 5252. Way to show your (lack of) mathematically related arguement skills!

Keith