Manley Billet 100mm crank - Cracked
Injector placement has nothing to do with it, neither does manifold porting. The power difference from the bit of extra air is negligible. The #4 web sees the pulses from all the other cylinders to transfer the torque to the flywheel, so it see's the most abuse. Simple as that.
What this really is a good example of is why you shouldn't run a 100mm crank. Too much flex.
The reality of it is that we are asking a lot out of a 2.0-2.3L engine. Shoving (usually) more than 2 extra atmospheres into it and asking for >150hp/cylinder. Not per liter, per cylinder. It's simply not going to last 200k miles, or even 100k miles, if you drive like you should be driving a built car.
Also, OEM cranks mean the business. The ER drag X, and Jeff Bush's DQ run OEM cranks. Both over 1200whp.
What this really is a good example of is why you shouldn't run a 100mm crank. Too much flex.
The reality of it is that we are asking a lot out of a 2.0-2.3L engine. Shoving (usually) more than 2 extra atmospheres into it and asking for >150hp/cylinder. Not per liter, per cylinder. It's simply not going to last 200k miles, or even 100k miles, if you drive like you should be driving a built car.
Also, OEM cranks mean the business. The ER drag X, and Jeff Bush's DQ run OEM cranks. Both over 1200whp.
I'm going to stick with the heavier crank to minimize the shock at this point. The heavier crank will have higher momem6of inertia to reduce the shock at #4 rod. So light weight versions are off my list.
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Injector placement has nothing to do with it, neither does manifold porting. The power difference from the bit of extra air is negligible. The #4 web sees the pulses from all the other cylinders to transfer the torque to the flywheel, so it see's the most abuse. Simple as that.
What this really is a good example of is why you shouldn't run a 100mm crank. Too much flex.
The reality of it is that we are asking a lot out of a 2.0-2.3L engine. Shoving (usually) more than 2 extra atmospheres into it and asking for >150hp/cylinder. Not per liter, per cylinder. It's simply not going to last 200k miles, or even 100k miles, if you drive like you should be driving a built car.
Also, OEM cranks mean the business. The ER drag X, and Jeff Bush's DQ run OEM cranks. Both over 1200whp.
What this really is a good example of is why you shouldn't run a 100mm crank. Too much flex.
The reality of it is that we are asking a lot out of a 2.0-2.3L engine. Shoving (usually) more than 2 extra atmospheres into it and asking for >150hp/cylinder. Not per liter, per cylinder. It's simply not going to last 200k miles, or even 100k miles, if you drive like you should be driving a built car.
Also, OEM cranks mean the business. The ER drag X, and Jeff Bush's DQ run OEM cranks. Both over 1200whp.
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I agree - the diagonal oil hole is not a good idea.
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The engine builder said it was good for 9k.
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I've read quite a few misconceptions in this thread.
I'll focus on only two , which are the most important. I will simplify my post as much as I can.
First, I've read by a member that many run above 2bar of boost on pump and that is careless. This is a misconception.
Boost, is the disability of an engine to take in certain amount of cfm, it has nothing to do with the turbo nor the type of the fuel used. For instance, the turbo I run on my car creates a certain amount of flow through its rpm and pressure ratio to make on my engine 2bar for instance, that same flow of the same turbocharger on a 5.0L engine would be 1bar or less i.e. More boost through the right setup means more flow. In other words if I ask the turbo to work harder to create more cfm, boost will increase. So since boost means more flow through the proper conditions, this also means more fuel. Once you give more or the right amount of fuel then there is no problem whether you are running 91 oct, 93 oct, 98 oct, 100 oct, race gas or e85. Another aspect of this to consider is that, a stock turbo on a stock engine needs to push less flow to create the same boost while on a higher V.E engine, it needs more flow, so although the turbo the boost pressure and fuel remain the same, the flow is more. In this equation though we need to throw into the mix the fact that we are trying to squeeze that mixture into an aluminum confined area and then compress it and ignite it. So because of these conditions we are limited on two main aspects of our setup. Static/dynamic compression ratio and timing advance. There is also another factor that plays are important role on how smooth, efficient and issues free our combustion will be, hot air. When I say hot air I mean, the relatively elevated temperature of the compressed cfm produced by the turbo. You see, the harder a turbocharger works, the hotter it gets, and that heat is transferred to the cfm that pushes, also the more air it compresses and the higher it does the more that cfm tends to heat up. The hotter the air that gets into the engine the more the risk of an anomalous combustion in regards to pre-ignition, detonation. This of course is counter-measured to a great degree by an efficient air cooling system.
So in other words, one can run above 2bar of boost or more on pump gas on a 4g63 engine, and depending on the specifics of his setup, i.e x compr. ratio, and the quality of the fuel, he will be able to run x amount of timing to make as much power as he can safely. To elaborate more on engine specifics, turbocharger used, cooling system, volumetric efficiency of the engine. The bigger more efficient the turbocharger the less it has to work for the same amount of flow thus the less it heats it up. Aslo a big turbo at 2bar on the same engine, will push more flow than a smaller turbocharger at 2bar bar always on the same exact engine/setup. This is because of the mechanical efficiency of the bigger turbocharger, and its ability to heat air far lees than a smaller, thus the molecular structure of the air is not distorted/changed as much ( hot air has expanded molecules occupying cm2 area which was meant for fresh incoming/absorbed air).
As a reference point, my personal evo has always been running in the last 14+ years I have it, above 2bar of boost , in various setups through various sizes of turbochargers, from stock to the one I have right now which is a gtx40r size turbo, not a garrett, it is a customized to my specs turbo.
Secondly, the BS topic, BS is not there to protect either your crank nor your engine. It is there so as the engine vibrations, are balanced out and neutralized to a good degree in order not to be transferred into the cabin and onto to the passengers. Whether you remove or keep it, it makes no different to the crank.
There are two vibrational forces acting on the crank, The one is vertical and the other is horizontal/axial. The vertical is canceled out by the counter weights of the crank, and the second is minimized to a great degree by the damper pulley/harmonic balancer.
As for the oem cranks, 4g64, 4g63, they are of very high quality in all aspects, I rate the 4g64 at 700+ whp, and the 4g63 at 1000+whp due to alloy and design differences mainly.
Marios
I'll focus on only two , which are the most important. I will simplify my post as much as I can.
First, I've read by a member that many run above 2bar of boost on pump and that is careless. This is a misconception.
Boost, is the disability of an engine to take in certain amount of cfm, it has nothing to do with the turbo nor the type of the fuel used. For instance, the turbo I run on my car creates a certain amount of flow through its rpm and pressure ratio to make on my engine 2bar for instance, that same flow of the same turbocharger on a 5.0L engine would be 1bar or less i.e. More boost through the right setup means more flow. In other words if I ask the turbo to work harder to create more cfm, boost will increase. So since boost means more flow through the proper conditions, this also means more fuel. Once you give more or the right amount of fuel then there is no problem whether you are running 91 oct, 93 oct, 98 oct, 100 oct, race gas or e85. Another aspect of this to consider is that, a stock turbo on a stock engine needs to push less flow to create the same boost while on a higher V.E engine, it needs more flow, so although the turbo the boost pressure and fuel remain the same, the flow is more. In this equation though we need to throw into the mix the fact that we are trying to squeeze that mixture into an aluminum confined area and then compress it and ignite it. So because of these conditions we are limited on two main aspects of our setup. Static/dynamic compression ratio and timing advance. There is also another factor that plays are important role on how smooth, efficient and issues free our combustion will be, hot air. When I say hot air I mean, the relatively elevated temperature of the compressed cfm produced by the turbo. You see, the harder a turbocharger works, the hotter it gets, and that heat is transferred to the cfm that pushes, also the more air it compresses and the higher it does the more that cfm tends to heat up. The hotter the air that gets into the engine the more the risk of an anomalous combustion in regards to pre-ignition, detonation. This of course is counter-measured to a great degree by an efficient air cooling system.
So in other words, one can run above 2bar of boost or more on pump gas on a 4g63 engine, and depending on the specifics of his setup, i.e x compr. ratio, and the quality of the fuel, he will be able to run x amount of timing to make as much power as he can safely. To elaborate more on engine specifics, turbocharger used, cooling system, volumetric efficiency of the engine. The bigger more efficient the turbocharger the less it has to work for the same amount of flow thus the less it heats it up. Aslo a big turbo at 2bar on the same engine, will push more flow than a smaller turbocharger at 2bar bar always on the same exact engine/setup. This is because of the mechanical efficiency of the bigger turbocharger, and its ability to heat air far lees than a smaller, thus the molecular structure of the air is not distorted/changed as much ( hot air has expanded molecules occupying cm2 area which was meant for fresh incoming/absorbed air).
As a reference point, my personal evo has always been running in the last 14+ years I have it, above 2bar of boost , in various setups through various sizes of turbochargers, from stock to the one I have right now which is a gtx40r size turbo, not a garrett, it is a customized to my specs turbo.
Secondly, the BS topic, BS is not there to protect either your crank nor your engine. It is there so as the engine vibrations, are balanced out and neutralized to a good degree in order not to be transferred into the cabin and onto to the passengers. Whether you remove or keep it, it makes no different to the crank.
There are two vibrational forces acting on the crank, The one is vertical and the other is horizontal/axial. The vertical is canceled out by the counter weights of the crank, and the second is minimized to a great degree by the damper pulley/harmonic balancer.
As for the oem cranks, 4g64, 4g63, they are of very high quality in all aspects, I rate the 4g64 at 700+ whp, and the 4g63 at 1000+whp due to alloy and design differences mainly.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; May 4, 2018 at 04:41 PM. Reason: typo
I've read quite a few misconceptions in this thread.
I'll focus on only two , which are the most important. I will simplify my post as much as I can.
First, I've read by a member that many run above 2bar of boost on pump and that is careless. This is a misconception.
Boost, is the disability of an engine to take in certain amount of cfm, it has nothing to do with the turbo nor the type of the fuel used. For instance, the turbo I run on my car creates a certain amount of flow through its rpm and pressure ratio to make on my engine 2bar for instance, that same flow of the same turbocharger on a 5.0L engine would be 1bar or less i.e. More boost through the right setup means more flow. In other words if I ask the turbo to work harder to create more cfm, boost will increase. So since boost means more flow through the proper conditions, this also means more fuel. Once you give more or the right amount of fuel then there is no problem whether you are running 91 oct, 93 oct, 98 oct, 100 oct, race gas or e85. Another aspect of this to consider is that, a stock turbo on a stock engine needs to push less flow to create the same boost while on a higher V.E engine, it needs more flow, so although the turbo the boost pressure and fuel remain the same, the flow is more. In this equation though we need to throw into the mix the fact that we are trying to squeeze that mixture into an aluminum confined area and then compress it and ignite it. So because of these conditions we are limited on two main aspects of our setup. Static/dynamic compression ratio and timing advance. There is also another factor that plays are important role on how smooth, efficient and issues free our combustion will be, hot air. When I say hot air I mean, the relatively elevated temperature of the compressed cfm produced by the turbo. You see, the harder a turbocharger works, the hotter it gets, and that heat is transferred to the cfm that pushes, also the more air it compresses and the higher it does the more that cfm tends to heat up. The hotter the air that gets into the engine the more the risk of an anomalous combustion in regards to pre-ignition, detonation. This of course is counter-measured to a great degree by an efficient air cooling system.
So in other words, one can run above 2bar of boost or more on pump gas on a 4g63 engine, and depending on the specifics of his setup, i.e x compr. ratio, and the quality of the fuel, he will be able to run x amount of timing to make as much power as he can safely. To elaborate more on engine specifics, turbocharger used, cooling system, volumetric efficiency of the engine. The bigger more efficient the turbocharger the less it has to work for the same amount of flow thus the less it heats it up. Aslo a big turbo at 2bar on the same engine, will push more flow than a smaller turbocharger at 2bar bar always on the same exact engine/setup. This is because of the mechanical efficiency of the bigger turbocharger, and its ability to heat air far lees than a smaller, thus the molecular structure of the air is not distorted/changed as much ( hot air has expanded molecules occupying cm2 area which was meant for fresh incoming/absorbed air).
I'll focus on only two , which are the most important. I will simplify my post as much as I can.
First, I've read by a member that many run above 2bar of boost on pump and that is careless. This is a misconception.
Boost, is the disability of an engine to take in certain amount of cfm, it has nothing to do with the turbo nor the type of the fuel used. For instance, the turbo I run on my car creates a certain amount of flow through its rpm and pressure ratio to make on my engine 2bar for instance, that same flow of the same turbocharger on a 5.0L engine would be 1bar or less i.e. More boost through the right setup means more flow. In other words if I ask the turbo to work harder to create more cfm, boost will increase. So since boost means more flow through the proper conditions, this also means more fuel. Once you give more or the right amount of fuel then there is no problem whether you are running 91 oct, 93 oct, 98 oct, 100 oct, race gas or e85. Another aspect of this to consider is that, a stock turbo on a stock engine needs to push less flow to create the same boost while on a higher V.E engine, it needs more flow, so although the turbo the boost pressure and fuel remain the same, the flow is more. In this equation though we need to throw into the mix the fact that we are trying to squeeze that mixture into an aluminum confined area and then compress it and ignite it. So because of these conditions we are limited on two main aspects of our setup. Static/dynamic compression ratio and timing advance. There is also another factor that plays are important role on how smooth, efficient and issues free our combustion will be, hot air. When I say hot air I mean, the relatively elevated temperature of the compressed cfm produced by the turbo. You see, the harder a turbocharger works, the hotter it gets, and that heat is transferred to the cfm that pushes, also the more air it compresses and the higher it does the more that cfm tends to heat up. The hotter the air that gets into the engine the more the risk of an anomalous combustion in regards to pre-ignition, detonation. This of course is counter-measured to a great degree by an efficient air cooling system.
So in other words, one can run above 2bar of boost or more on pump gas on a 4g63 engine, and depending on the specifics of his setup, i.e x compr. ratio, and the quality of the fuel, he will be able to run x amount of timing to make as much power as he can safely. To elaborate more on engine specifics, turbocharger used, cooling system, volumetric efficiency of the engine. The bigger more efficient the turbocharger the less it has to work for the same amount of flow thus the less it heats it up. Aslo a big turbo at 2bar on the same engine, will push more flow than a smaller turbocharger at 2bar bar always on the same exact engine/setup. This is because of the mechanical efficiency of the bigger turbocharger, and its ability to heat air far lees than a smaller, thus the molecular structure of the air is not distorted/changed as much ( hot air has expanded molecules occupying cm2 area which was meant for fresh incoming/absorbed air).
Originally Posted by xRoguex
poor design, that creates a weak point due to material thickness(thin).
The engine builder said it was good for 9k.
The engine builder said it was good for 9k.
I would totally agree as I haven’t heard of any engine builder pushing a 2.3 to 9k, I feel 8.5k is even high and 8k is a much safer #. Like most say want to rev it high go 2.2 or smaller. I have a 2.3 with a Manley billet 100mm built by Tscomp, I don’t have any issues, but if had to do it all over again I would of definitely went 2.2 to rev higher.
