Understanding ASC: What it does and reported problems & codes (thread merge)
I felt it was pertinent to correct the OP in his assumption that the Z chip makes more power than a reflash. Fuel octane and parameter control ability set the limits, not the interface. A piggy back isn't going to magically allow the engine to run more boost or timing without knocking. The thread that compared the 1/4 mile times and trap speeds is somewhere in the X setion from months past.
He was referring to a "typical reflash," which usually doesn't mean a full custom tune, something that you seem to be defending here. I have nothing against a mail-in, FCT, or piggyback. They ALL have pros and cons.
Oh, and you ask why I say that TTPs dyno reads high? I would say it's based on the fact that it reads a stock X at like 260+ whp when the average mustang reads more in the 220 range. No offense, but the info that I have given that you seem to be questioning is readily available in past threads, and with being a newbie to EVOM you shouldn't be questioning and disagreeing with people on facts that are well established on this forum.
Whether a forum decides to call its newer members "noobs, newbies, or morons" really doesn't matter, nor does it impact who I am, or the knowledge I possess. I am free, just like you- to have an opinion, disagree or correct something if I feel it is needed. Because I haven't made a trillion posts, doesn't make me less intelligent, only new to evom. Again, direct comparisons/links are appreciated when someone is accusing a company of being wrong. Does it read high? Maybe. Does "the average Mustang" read low? Maybe. Maybe neither was setup correctly. GAIN, I think, is more important.
The reflash detectability issue, for instance, is discussed thoroughly in a thread by WORKS tuning somewhere in the engine management section. Read and catch up to those who have been here for far longer than you before accusing people of being wrong. In any case, this was not off topic because the OP asked if anyone has had any issues with a reflash like you BOTH seem to be having with the Z chip, so comparison to a reflash was totally relevant.
Again, where is the link? Doesn't matter, because reflashes can be detected by dealers. This is from both personal experience, and a friend of mine who is a Mitsu tech. There is nothing to "catch up" to, unless you want me to catch up to people's opinions, which mostly come from enthusiasts, but not from certified techs or tuners.
Again, I would assume that since the Z chip isn't altering the values in the ecu directly but rather intercepting them and manipulating the output/input that the ecu could freak out a little. Why would this be in the form of an ASC issue and not a cel? I honestly don't know, but the ASC is integrated into the SAWC system, which reacts to power output from the engine, which is run by the ecu. Perhaps it's coincidental, as this has happened to people with relatively stock Xs, again I don't know. But piggybacks can't adjust the more intricate things in the ecu like safety parameters.
No one really has answers to this right now. It is something that I, and others are working on.
This can cause issues like going into limp mode from a P1320 overboosting code because the ecu doesn't know why the car is running more boost and intervenes. I just felt like explaining the benefits of a reflash and offered some insight as to why the Z chip might be causing this issue, and I thought it would be beneficial to the OP to let him know that a piggy back really isn't the best option out there.
Piggybacks may be the best options for some people, but not others. Most people will want undetectable mods that can easily be removed during warranty, yet others may not care about warranty and jump right into heavy mods. A tune, for example is something I must avoid during my warranty period, because we all know how quick Mitsu is to point their fingers at us and void warranties.
He was referring to a "typical reflash," which usually doesn't mean a full custom tune, something that you seem to be defending here. I have nothing against a mail-in, FCT, or piggyback. They ALL have pros and cons.
Oh, and you ask why I say that TTPs dyno reads high? I would say it's based on the fact that it reads a stock X at like 260+ whp when the average mustang reads more in the 220 range. No offense, but the info that I have given that you seem to be questioning is readily available in past threads, and with being a newbie to EVOM you shouldn't be questioning and disagreeing with people on facts that are well established on this forum.
Whether a forum decides to call its newer members "noobs, newbies, or morons" really doesn't matter, nor does it impact who I am, or the knowledge I possess. I am free, just like you- to have an opinion, disagree or correct something if I feel it is needed. Because I haven't made a trillion posts, doesn't make me less intelligent, only new to evom. Again, direct comparisons/links are appreciated when someone is accusing a company of being wrong. Does it read high? Maybe. Does "the average Mustang" read low? Maybe. Maybe neither was setup correctly. GAIN, I think, is more important.
The reflash detectability issue, for instance, is discussed thoroughly in a thread by WORKS tuning somewhere in the engine management section. Read and catch up to those who have been here for far longer than you before accusing people of being wrong. In any case, this was not off topic because the OP asked if anyone has had any issues with a reflash like you BOTH seem to be having with the Z chip, so comparison to a reflash was totally relevant.
Again, where is the link? Doesn't matter, because reflashes can be detected by dealers. This is from both personal experience, and a friend of mine who is a Mitsu tech. There is nothing to "catch up" to, unless you want me to catch up to people's opinions, which mostly come from enthusiasts, but not from certified techs or tuners.
Again, I would assume that since the Z chip isn't altering the values in the ecu directly but rather intercepting them and manipulating the output/input that the ecu could freak out a little. Why would this be in the form of an ASC issue and not a cel? I honestly don't know, but the ASC is integrated into the SAWC system, which reacts to power output from the engine, which is run by the ecu. Perhaps it's coincidental, as this has happened to people with relatively stock Xs, again I don't know. But piggybacks can't adjust the more intricate things in the ecu like safety parameters.
No one really has answers to this right now. It is something that I, and others are working on.
This can cause issues like going into limp mode from a P1320 overboosting code because the ecu doesn't know why the car is running more boost and intervenes. I just felt like explaining the benefits of a reflash and offered some insight as to why the Z chip might be causing this issue, and I thought it would be beneficial to the OP to let him know that a piggy back really isn't the best option out there.
Piggybacks may be the best options for some people, but not others. Most people will want undetectable mods that can easily be removed during warranty, yet others may not care about warranty and jump right into heavy mods. A tune, for example is something I must avoid during my warranty period, because we all know how quick Mitsu is to point their fingers at us and void warranties.
There are 6 maps based on airflow alone that affects drivability .. SSTs included ..
Anything that doesn't matches up triggers a CEL / ASC .. on SST it triggers transmission slippage CEL and feels like one ..
ASC reference airflow calculation for engine power cut .. the algorithm compares rpm with TPS for the reference airflow ..
Anything that doesn't matches up triggers a CEL / ASC .. on SST it triggers transmission slippage CEL and feels like one ..
ASC reference airflow calculation for engine power cut .. the algorithm compares rpm with TPS for the reference airflow ..
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 1
From: USA
Lallen, by saying that you are new to EVOM, I am not saying that you are unintelligent. I am just making the point that a lot of the points that I have made, and that you seem to question, are common knowledge that has been covered in other threads from months past when you weren't here and if you spent some time researching and reading then you could be caught up to speed.
As far as the reflash is concerned, there are many threads covering this topic and WORKS has a long and in depth explanation for what the dealer has to do to detect it, and I assure you it is much more complicated than what you think. In any case, I will dig through the engine management forums and see if I can find the link for you. Assuming that they were willing to go through the trouble of checking, they wouldn't even think to look if you didn't tell them it was there. What they really look for is visible modifications like bolt ons.
Either way, coverage largely depends on your dealer. Most dealers won't really care about a cat back and an intake, but walk in with a turbo kit and it's game over. In any case I don't know why you'd even worry about it; it's not like the dealer covers anything anyway. If a clutch goes out, it's "wear and tear." If the transfer case goes out, it's "abuse." If the engine blows, same thing.
About the only thing that's every covered is suspension stuff or body work defects. I'd say that the benefits in control and precision of a reflash vs a piggy back FAR outweigh the risk of a non existent warranty being voided. Just a thought...
As far as the reflash is concerned, there are many threads covering this topic and WORKS has a long and in depth explanation for what the dealer has to do to detect it, and I assure you it is much more complicated than what you think. In any case, I will dig through the engine management forums and see if I can find the link for you. Assuming that they were willing to go through the trouble of checking, they wouldn't even think to look if you didn't tell them it was there. What they really look for is visible modifications like bolt ons.
Either way, coverage largely depends on your dealer. Most dealers won't really care about a cat back and an intake, but walk in with a turbo kit and it's game over. In any case I don't know why you'd even worry about it; it's not like the dealer covers anything anyway. If a clutch goes out, it's "wear and tear." If the transfer case goes out, it's "abuse." If the engine blows, same thing.
About the only thing that's every covered is suspension stuff or body work defects. I'd say that the benefits in control and precision of a reflash vs a piggy back FAR outweigh the risk of a non existent warranty being voided. Just a thought...
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Nov 11, 2008 at 06:37 PM. Reason: typo
Mike
Lallen, by saying that you are new to EVOM, I am not saying that you are unintelligent. I am just making the point that a lot of the points that I have made, and that you seem to question, are common knowledge that has been covered in other threads from months past when you weren't here and if you spent some time researching and reading then you could be caught up to speed.
As far as the reflash is concerned, there are many threads covering this topic and WORKS has a long and in depth explanation for what the dealer has to do to detect it, and I assure you it is much more complicated than what you think and more impotantly, they will almost never look to see if one is there. What they really look for is visible modifications like bolt ons. However, coverage largely depends on your dealer. In any case, I will dig through the engine management forums and see if I can find the link for you.
Most dealers won't really care about a cat back and an intake, but walk in with a turbo kit and it's game over. In any case I don't know why you'd even worry about it; it's not like the dealer covers anything anyway. If a clutch goes out, it's "wear and tear." If the transfer case goes out, it's "abuse." If the engine blows, same thing.
About the only thing that's every covered is suspension stuff or body work defects. I'd say that the benefits in control and precision of a reflash vs a piggy back FAR outweigh the risk of a non existent warranty being voided. Just a thought...
As far as the reflash is concerned, there are many threads covering this topic and WORKS has a long and in depth explanation for what the dealer has to do to detect it, and I assure you it is much more complicated than what you think and more impotantly, they will almost never look to see if one is there. What they really look for is visible modifications like bolt ons. However, coverage largely depends on your dealer. In any case, I will dig through the engine management forums and see if I can find the link for you.
Most dealers won't really care about a cat back and an intake, but walk in with a turbo kit and it's game over. In any case I don't know why you'd even worry about it; it's not like the dealer covers anything anyway. If a clutch goes out, it's "wear and tear." If the transfer case goes out, it's "abuse." If the engine blows, same thing.
About the only thing that's every covered is suspension stuff or body work defects. I'd say that the benefits in control and precision of a reflash vs a piggy back FAR outweigh the risk of a non existent warranty being voided. Just a thought...
My car is in part flashed by Jestrtuning and we're cel free so far 
.. We a few customers with Ecuteh and no issues there , not sure on the extend of their flash but seems to be working just fine .
.. We a few customers with Ecuteh and no issues there , not sure on the extend of their flash but seems to be working just fine .
We spoke 2 days ago where you told us that only one Evo X has been baselined on your dyno and it belonged to you.
Once fully tuned, we would be happy to hear the results of your experience.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 1
From: USA
Makes me wonder about the 6 thousand dollar extended warranty that I bought. Supposedly it covers bumper 2 bumper for 100K miles/6 years. Get this: They charged me (worked into financing w/o telling me) two thousand dollars for a "two year oil change" agreement. What I didn't know was this: It covers 8 oil changes. One, every three months. They MOST the contract pays for each oil change: $30.00. The cost of a Mitsubishi Mobil-1 oil change: $90.00 plus tax. Their suggestion to me: Buy the oil yourself, then bring it to us, so we can change it for you (after I was naturally upset). Contract pays: up to $240.00, I pay $2000.00. As you may have guessed, I canceled the contract. You should have seen them trying everything to keep me from canceling, it was like a circus. With my experience, I expect the worse from Mitsu. Ask anyone, here in San Antonio, TX- you can count on every excuse, but not on good service. I thought I'd have to kill someone to get my left A-pillar trim replaced because it was warped. I LOVE the car, I LOVE the company, but I HATE the dealers. To clarify- I was not intent on arguing, just trying to keep things from appearing one-sided. I think we both made some good points, and I look forward to a long relationship with evom. I hope I haven't actually offended you, if so, I apologize. I can be.. uh.. linear at times.
It hasnt happened with ANY ecutek people that ive heard of.
The first time i ever heard of anything having to do with an ASC light issue was when the Zchip hit the market.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Yep me too, I don't post a lot but I have been following the various tuning threads pretty closely. I may have missed something but I have not seen any posts about Ecutek tunes causing ASC light issues.
