Game over for AEM EMS?
Originally Posted by SilverIX
Facts or not...this is much like a political debate in that...there are MANY ways to accomplish the same thing. It usually boils down to plain old preference. What your experiences have been with such and such. Good, bad...it'll affect your future decisions. I personally find it rather impressive that Smog was able to make that much on an otherwise stock setup. Very cool. AND useful to know.
Whether I wish to spend MY money on AEM EMS or not isn't the point here. He's offering up a different 'path' way to achieve the same goal. I think that was very cool of him to share.
Whether I wish to spend MY money on AEM EMS or not isn't the point here. He's offering up a different 'path' way to achieve the same goal. I think that was very cool of him to share.
Anyway, Its good that he ruffled a few feathers, I for one have a particular path in mind and therefore chose what I did for a reason. Many others may not have all the information they need to make the decision, at least they know that they have options. I have seen way too many butchered cars out there because people threw parts at their car and didn't really have all the info they needed, plus poor advice from people who may not have had all the data they needed to make an educated decision.. This just adds to their toolbox of knowledge.
All I can add to this is that my car runs smoother now than it ever has, after having Dr. Gray tune my EMS. I wouldn't even think of going back to stock ecu. The idle control is simply amazing, and my car actually idles better when the a/c is on. While I do wish that I had given ecu flash a try before the ems, by no means do I plan on going back to stock ecu.
I prefer the Method that allows the MOST OEM parts to remain on the car. The Evo is SUCH an increadible package, no need to dilute it so much with crazy mods. I really can't see a need for the AEM EMS unless you have a crazy drag car. The Stock Ecu, especially teh IX, will do 99% of whever you need.
Originally Posted by Zeus
I see this as a DISCUSSION of at what point does one really NEED a stand alone answer to engine management. I'd say few Evo owners really do.
Smogrunner has made a very good point that contradicts certain misinformation perpetuated both within and outside of this forum, that being the factory ECU is incapable of providing enough fuel an ignition control to generate impressive power.
Baloney.
What Smogrunner's results illustrate is a standalone device isn't a necessity for the vast majority of applications, but is in fact a luxury when in capable hands, and a nightmare otherwise. I might note that I'm holding onto the Xede I am using presently, because I make very good use of features that the stock ECU does not deliver. These features are useful and advantageous, but none are essential.
Standalone ECUs are a virtual necessity in many applications (like my '86 SVO Mustang), but convincing a potential buyer that a standalone is a necessity to making good power with an EVO, especially in light of the open accessibility of ECU Flash, etc., is irresponsible. Smogrunner challenged this misconception, and he is correct.
Smoggrunner,
a couple of people in this thread have said its pointless to create, but i just want to thank you for creating it as i am in a tough situation deciding between the aem or flash and definitely need some help. i have pretty much the same mods as you minus the fuel system, but add a ported head, intake mani, thottle body, and a 3065r. i only plan to run pump (91) and alky.
your buid up has been very helpful to me, especially the problems you had with the stock maf. i would like to take precautions before they happen so im trying to find a good set up to take care of this. right now im thinking about the aem (tuned by david buschur), flash and maf translator w/gm maf, or flash and maft pro on speed density. i totally agree with you when you say "set it and forget it" as i dont have any tuning experience. any suggestions?
a couple of people in this thread have said its pointless to create, but i just want to thank you for creating it as i am in a tough situation deciding between the aem or flash and definitely need some help. i have pretty much the same mods as you minus the fuel system, but add a ported head, intake mani, thottle body, and a 3065r. i only plan to run pump (91) and alky.
your buid up has been very helpful to me, especially the problems you had with the stock maf. i would like to take precautions before they happen so im trying to find a good set up to take care of this. right now im thinking about the aem (tuned by david buschur), flash and maf translator w/gm maf, or flash and maft pro on speed density. i totally agree with you when you say "set it and forget it" as i dont have any tuning experience. any suggestions?
Originally Posted by Ted B
So do I, and I agree 100%.
Smogrunner has made a very good point that contradicts certain misinformation perpetuated both within and outside of this forum, that being the factory ECU is incapable of providing enough fuel an ignition control to generate impressive power.
Baloney.
What Smogrunner's results illustrate is a standalone device isn't a necessity for the vast majority of applications, but is in fact a luxury when in capable hands, and a nightmare otherwise. I might note that I'm holding onto the Xede I am using presently, because I make very good use of features that the stock ECU does not deliver. These features are useful and advantageous, but none are essential.
Standalone ECUs are a virtual necessity in many applications (like my '86 SVO Mustang), but convincing a potential buyer that a standalone is a necessity to making good power with an EVO, especially in light of the open accessibility of ECU Flash, etc., is irresponsible. Smogrunner challenged this misconception, and he is correct.
Smogrunner has made a very good point that contradicts certain misinformation perpetuated both within and outside of this forum, that being the factory ECU is incapable of providing enough fuel an ignition control to generate impressive power.
Baloney.
What Smogrunner's results illustrate is a standalone device isn't a necessity for the vast majority of applications, but is in fact a luxury when in capable hands, and a nightmare otherwise. I might note that I'm holding onto the Xede I am using presently, because I make very good use of features that the stock ECU does not deliver. These features are useful and advantageous, but none are essential.
Standalone ECUs are a virtual necessity in many applications (like my '86 SVO Mustang), but convincing a potential buyer that a standalone is a necessity to making good power with an EVO, especially in light of the open accessibility of ECU Flash, etc., is irresponsible. Smogrunner challenged this misconception, and he is correct.
"Waved Ameican Flag and hummed the National Anthem while reading"
ecuflash may very well be the nat's *** in about three months, from what I have seen so far you have a few people with flash lights looking around a basement.
Once they turn on the lights and everything becomes clear THEN you will have something.
It does look to be very promising!
Once they turn on the lights and everything becomes clear THEN you will have something.
It does look to be very promising!
Originally Posted by Smogrunner
. . . That said, any Evo owner can have a PERFECTLY running 500whp car, that is as daily driveable as a stock Evo. All they need is the basic bolt on mods with a 3076 turbo . . . A car like this will run 11.5 at 123mph with any ole Dork like you or me driving it.
. . . you can go with a stroker motor and a 35R with a reflash and go out and run 11.0 at 128 without a problem, over and over again with Falken Azeni street tires spinning all the way through 1st and a well into second gear . . .
If you need more than this, then by all means, go knock yourself out with a standalone.
. . . you can go with a stroker motor and a 35R with a reflash and go out and run 11.0 at 128 without a problem, over and over again with Falken Azeni street tires spinning all the way through 1st and a well into second gear . . .
If you need more than this, then by all means, go knock yourself out with a standalone.
BTW, I only have 360 whp but I spin my 285/30/18 Advan Neova's all the way through 1st. Nothing too special 'bout that . . .
Reasons to use EMS:
- control timing/fuel retard as backup safety for alcohol system
- control high/low boost
- control anti-lag, 2-step, nlts, etc
- run fun cams without stalling
- make more power with same mods
- 99.5% of users can't "toon" their own stuff, so they have to pay for tuning anyway
- run 1600 cc injectors with fun turbos
- user definable logging built in
I already knocked myself out with a standalone. Felt pretty good really.
EVOlutionary
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Reasons to use EMS. . .
Originally Posted by Ted B
But you might want to footnote that commentary by mentioning that said features are not exclusive to standalones. (FYI)
EVOlutionary
I did not say that it could. All I said was one need not resort to a standalone ECU to get those features (and others as well).
Where reflashing is concerned however, the factory ECU does possess quite a bit of undeveloped capability. No doubt those who enjoy challenges are working to exploit every last bit of it.
Where reflashing is concerned however, the factory ECU does possess quite a bit of undeveloped capability. No doubt those who enjoy challenges are working to exploit every last bit of it.
Originally Posted by Smogrunner
If you think I made up my own pricing, you are wrong. I took that pricing straight from Buschur Racing. It is the complete kit with all the sensors etc, which is exactly what I'd need if I was going to switch to it . . .
EVOlutionary
Originally Posted by Ted B
I did not say that it could. All I said was one need not resort to a standalone ECU to get those features (and others as well).
Where reflashing is concerned however, the factory ECU does possess quite a bit of undeveloped capability. No doubt those who enjoy challenges are working to exploit every last bit of it.
Where reflashing is concerned however, the factory ECU does possess quite a bit of undeveloped capability. No doubt those who enjoy challenges are working to exploit every last bit of it.
EVOlutionary
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Ok, so you said that not only standalones can provide those features, then you implied reflashes could not either, so are you talking about a piggyback ECU? Like the V-branded Australian unit? Interesting . . . idea - use the reflash to control ignition and fuel, etc, and use the interceptor to add more features like a stand alone would offer?
EVOlutionary
EVOlutionary