Kyooch, I agree about the TCSST and driver concentration factor, although I think it really comes down to the track and driver. The problem that I've got with all the magazines using the MR is that they use it mistakenly thinking that it's the flagship performer and it's really not. The most expensive trim level is not always the best. Take the old 350 Zs for instance. The track model was lighter and faster than the more expensive touring model (or whatever it was called) and it was cheaper. Same case with the GSR. The MR is a luxury version of the GSR, with softer suspension, more sound insulation, and a heavier transmission that loses more power because of the wet clutches.

The MR is only able to pull off marginally better lap times on certain courses because of the super fast shifting and marginally better braking, thanks to the 2 piece front rotors. The MR is a conundrum because of this, because according to the spec sheet, it is the inferior machine and yet is able to make up for this by shifting really fast. This "rabbit out of a hat" trick has it's price though, as it just can't handle much power and handicaps the MR in the long run if you plan on upgrading the car. Pros and cons, pros and cons... The GSR is the superior platform for building a track beast.

 

Watch a track video. A L O T

 

lol guys i'm just replying to rob's question

It does depend on the track though, I know there are certain tracks that you stay between 3rd and 4th the whole time

I'm just saying I don't think we should JUST focus on the benefit of the faster shifting, but also the increase in focus of not worrying about shifting at all.

Edmunds/Inside Line:
The standout here is the Evo X MR. Here is a car that gets smoked in every category of our instrumented testing and had some high-rpm hiccups, yet still manages to out-quick the Evo GSR and the WRX STI over the course of our 1.6-mile lap.

A few advantages allow the Evo MR to pip the others around the road course. Its twin-clutch gearbox really proves its worth on this twisting, highly technical layout, delivering consistently fast gearchanges in a gearbox with closer ratios than the Evo GSR's conventional manual transmission. The MR's improved suspension compliance (and less unsprung mass) also allows power to be funneled continuously to the tarmac without upsetting the chassis.

 

i said the the GSR shift all the gears on 1/4 mile, so should be dead even with the MR, if you think about the shifting time differences.
But they are not. So when we say it is an advantage, and certainly is, not as big as actually people think.
The biggest thing i can see on it, you will not do any "money shifts". And you can use the left foot much easie,r and you can utilize it more freely too./no need to push the clutch any more/

So any way . There is fewer shifts in 14 second , in road course or autoX then drag race. That was my point. And i'm sure you all got that.
So if there is no significantly advantige for the SST in the drag race , then shouldn't be on the road course either. Just plane logic.
Or if it does, then might have a problem with shifting or finding the right gear for turn. Think about it. 5 times in 14 sec no visible advantage , but all of a sudden fewer shifts make the car faster because the shifting...
I'm just not buying it.

Also on road course the weight and the lateral G , power, makes a hell of the difference.
And on trap speed with the MR we know it is not gaining anithyng on the GSR. So power , out. Lateral G proven better on the GSR. SO the weight.
Only thing is the MR better is the shift speed. but i explain that one above. What is my idea about that.

This is my opinion.

 

See? I was replying to him.
It does make a difference, depending on the track, but also in improved concentration.. all you have to do is drive as fast and as smart as you can

Also, the MR is slower 1/4 mile because of 1, the launch, which it loses on the time for the 1/4 mile, and 2, the increase in weight and decrease in full power delivery through the tranny, which decreases it's speed in the 1/4 mile

 

yes a i know that. But still the MR doesnt have a trap speed . Also the 0-60 numbers are a same close then a 1/4 mile ones... SO the MR doesnt make any time up between the 60 mph to 98 mph . too. So where is the Shifting advantige? The gsr a mean time shifts 3 times more? its always staye the 0.3 sec margine. Think about it.
Shouldn't be the MR gain on that 3 times shifts?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...mktid=cj260233

 

Also note SST should be compared more fairly, USDM MR is GSR Premium in Japan + the transmission. SST adds 44lbs, but Premium package adds another 110lbs on top of that:

GSR: 1530kg
GSR SST: 1550kg
GSR Premium: 1580kg
GSR Premium SST: 1600kg

Premium package adds the performance goodies, which are the Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, BBS wheels, aero package, but majority of weight comes from leather interior, heated front seats, and better sound system, which are just dead weights in terms of performance.

 

no sign of an MR in the Japanese market... how much till they do? their MR should be the top of the line performer!

 

I'm not 100% sure what you're saying but..
the reason it says within .3 seconds is probably because of the shifting.
The MR would fall behind otherwise, as you can see from the trap speed.
The SST does put down as much power as a regular manual tranny, I believe is what we've seen from dynos, and the lack of power is the reason for the trap speed (along with extra weight).

I think you're assuming that the MR is straight line just about as quick as the GSR; I think it's a little bit slower, but part of the reason the margin doesn't increase is because of the shifting.

 

so... That is why if the lateral G numbers better/by big numbers/ so the slalom, etc., accaleration is is a same /at least/
How the GSR is slower? How about when you have a track between 3-5 th gear/which is the most road race track are/?
I think you see what i'm saying.

 

I THINK what you're saying is that

It doesn't make sense for the MR to be faster when all of the specs side with the GSR, and that saved time from shifting alone can't help the MR so much that it would actually beat a GSR on the road course.

I don't really know either, but seeing that stock for stock (and probably ONLY stock for stock) it's posted slight better times from what I've seen my theory is that rather than the factor of saved times from the shifting, I think the most benefit can be had from the full concentration you can have on purely driving. Other than pro drivers, I think it's a pretty big factor that people don't really think will make much of a difference.

 

yep we are saying the same. But no need to be a pro driver. the weight turns, and etc is all goes for the GSR. so if you are a decent driver. the gsr advantage should give you at lest an equal time . But as soon as the turns are longer and the straight are longer the gsr should win.
But some how all the test managed it to loose it a big portion of time vs the MR.

 

being an MR owner, IMO i don't think the MR's shift advantage is portrayed correctly in the 1/4 mile, infact i think this area of the argument needs to be stopped. obviously, the evo is not built to be a drag car anyway... i think the big advantage of the MR, as many have said already, is in prolonged road races. as much as people don't like to admit it... almost nobody on this thread is a pro driver. that said... almost nobody on this thread can shift faster than the SST. even if the SST only betters a manual shift by .01 seconds a lap.(which it clearly does more) than after 100 laps it makes up a full second. and as far as the big weight dif. between the two models most of it is made up of the comfort goodies of the MR, as a platform, the MR or SST is the future... or... EVOLUTION of the racing world. people forget that the "super cars" that we as EVO owners are running down, have been doing this for years. hell, my cayanne turbo has a tiptronic system. and it is a freakin 05 suv. whether people want to except it or not... it is faster. and down the road when all the bugs are worked out of the SST i don't think anyone will an argument left for a manual tranns.

 

Im a Pro-Driver and yes I can can shift faster than the SST.

 

nobody said any one can shift faster then a SSt....
I said it doesn't give that much advantage as they claim. And i stand by that.
statement .

The biggest proof is the 1/4 mile time where basically you shift all the gears on the GSR and still win a good amount of time and speed over the MR. /higher trap speed also/
And even if you watch after the 60 mph time the MR still dont gain anything on the GSR./1/4 mile/ So where is the advantage on road track? The GSR have better L-G's also...
and suffer only 1 feet of breaking distance, Also the GSR is lighter.

If you know anything about racing , you would question the road track times also.