Evo X vs. Evo VIII and IX
That is so true! most of the X lovers are actually new to the evo scene and not knowing the history would just cast off the previous evo's as has been. I see them driving civics, honda(other types) and would just like to go to debates when they are not in the market to begin with.
Being skeptical of a new engine is fine, but its different when overall reactions tend to be more negative then neutral or positive. I have loved the Mitsubishi line of cars since the old GSX, and I truly believe every generation of car they have made has been better. Well, except for the Eclipse, they really butchered that poor car.
Without a doubt, I think we can all agree Mitsu makes some of the best motors on the planet. Their over all efficiency is amazing, and the amount of power people have been able to get from such a small motor is just unbelievable. This has a lot to do with the fact that these motors were built to sustain VERY hard driving conditions during rally races.
One thing my many years with cars has taught me is that you can make ANYTHING fast, but at the end of the day you have to drive it home. Personally, for me, I want that drive to be smoother, and more refined. The Evo X delivers superbly in this area. You can actually accelerate HARD from 45mph in 5th gear. In fact, I would wager any money that if you put a VIII or a IX (in 6th) against the X in this exact same test, to 70mph, the X would own. But, most people dont care about this. Just shift to 4th to pass. Im ok with that too, but its nice now on a long drive to be more comfortable, and not have to fiddle between the gears all the time. (read I am getting older and LAZIER)
Well I agree that some people may get over excited by the car, who made anyone else the boss to "crush their dreams". Why say anything? Why support such a negative attitude? No one reserves the right to tell someone "YOU SHOULDNT BE EXCITED ABOUT THIS!". Its rude, and more irritating then just the general excitement / chatter from everyone else.
I have no doubt in my mind, and Vishnu is already proving this anyway, that the X motor will create a lot of power. It has all the stats to say it will, but one thing is for sure, and its something I have yet to see any fanboi even say. Will the motor hold up to the mods / enhancements etc. No one knows the answer to this question, and I think that should be the focus of all the statements. Great, we are a making a ton of power, but how much knock can it withstand, what AFR's does it like to run at, how high can we get with the EGT's before we have to worry? These are the questions we should be asking, not "What does it take to hit 400WHP", "OMG Your a fanboi, the motor will never do that noob!" k?
Without a doubt, I think we can all agree Mitsu makes some of the best motors on the planet. Their over all efficiency is amazing, and the amount of power people have been able to get from such a small motor is just unbelievable. This has a lot to do with the fact that these motors were built to sustain VERY hard driving conditions during rally races.
One thing my many years with cars has taught me is that you can make ANYTHING fast, but at the end of the day you have to drive it home. Personally, for me, I want that drive to be smoother, and more refined. The Evo X delivers superbly in this area. You can actually accelerate HARD from 45mph in 5th gear. In fact, I would wager any money that if you put a VIII or a IX (in 6th) against the X in this exact same test, to 70mph, the X would own. But, most people dont care about this. Just shift to 4th to pass. Im ok with that too, but its nice now on a long drive to be more comfortable, and not have to fiddle between the gears all the time. (read I am getting older and LAZIER)
Well I agree that some people may get over excited by the car, who made anyone else the boss to "crush their dreams". Why say anything? Why support such a negative attitude? No one reserves the right to tell someone "YOU SHOULDNT BE EXCITED ABOUT THIS!". Its rude, and more irritating then just the general excitement / chatter from everyone else.
I have no doubt in my mind, and Vishnu is already proving this anyway, that the X motor will create a lot of power. It has all the stats to say it will, but one thing is for sure, and its something I have yet to see any fanboi even say. Will the motor hold up to the mods / enhancements etc. No one knows the answer to this question, and I think that should be the focus of all the statements. Great, we are a making a ton of power, but how much knock can it withstand, what AFR's does it like to run at, how high can we get with the EGT's before we have to worry? These are the questions we should be asking, not "What does it take to hit 400WHP", "OMG Your a fanboi, the motor will never do that noob!" k?
Last edited by PDXEvo; Feb 3, 2008 at 09:43 AM.
seems to me everybody who have skepticism with the X ,is the hater.. 
I have more problem with after 1-2 week dyno tests and parts being put it on final conclusions. Like we gained X amount of whp. Great, but it is reilable? You can make alots of extra whp with the older cars too, but you will cross the safe line.
We know where is the safe line with the older engine. Mean time we don't know where is the safe line with the new one. Or this is just me?
And still some guys make statements . And not so many tuner shop say, wait... we still testing! And those shops who are does it , i give a big respect for them.
Some even coming like the X as fast like the older "race" version. The fact 1 sec only slower, against all odds with the seat time difference in those two cars. If i following right that one ,in more seat time in, the new X will make the X even faster in that stage, then the race version... so let me break it down this one so i can explain my thought here better:
The new X with bolt ons , no tune, same tires and rims, run 1 sec slower then the race evo 8 on the 1minute over track with lot more seat time in it.... Sounds odd ? or this is just me again...
I didn't want to go back to them then ,but still just plain wrong. First of all, that car what they post there, with those specs, is not a race car/at least not what the race car should be/. I would call that car a weekend warrior , and for that is great. The race car is what you are purposley build and use for race only . Example the AMS car or Evasive , Robispec, Hotlaps etc., now those are the race cars. The fact, if you talking about race cars everybody pictures those not what they are talking about. But they still post it like that, and put it on on the forum like that.
So some newbie will think: whoa i get a X and with stage 1 /even without tune/ will be faster then the race preped 8 or 9....
You think don't raise some eyebrow when you see that? Specially when somebody driven a real race car and know what we actually talking about?
SO THESE THINGS MAKE ME A HATER ????
I have more problem with after 1-2 week dyno tests and parts being put it on final conclusions. Like we gained X amount of whp. Great, but it is reilable? You can make alots of extra whp with the older cars too, but you will cross the safe line.
We know where is the safe line with the older engine. Mean time we don't know where is the safe line with the new one. Or this is just me?
And still some guys make statements . And not so many tuner shop say, wait... we still testing! And those shops who are does it , i give a big respect for them.
Some even coming like the X as fast like the older "race" version. The fact 1 sec only slower, against all odds with the seat time difference in those two cars. If i following right that one ,in more seat time in, the new X will make the X even faster in that stage, then the race version... so let me break it down this one so i can explain my thought here better:
The new X with bolt ons , no tune, same tires and rims, run 1 sec slower then the race evo 8 on the 1minute over track with lot more seat time in it.... Sounds odd ? or this is just me again...
I didn't want to go back to them then ,but still just plain wrong. First of all, that car what they post there, with those specs, is not a race car/at least not what the race car should be/. I would call that car a weekend warrior , and for that is great. The race car is what you are purposley build and use for race only . Example the AMS car or Evasive , Robispec, Hotlaps etc., now those are the race cars. The fact, if you talking about race cars everybody pictures those not what they are talking about. But they still post it like that, and put it on on the forum like that.
So some newbie will think: whoa i get a X and with stage 1 /even without tune/ will be faster then the race preped 8 or 9....
You think don't raise some eyebrow when you see that? Specially when somebody driven a real race car and know what we actually talking about?
SO THESE THINGS MAKE ME A HATER ????
yea
Not a fan of the 4b11.. with that said it has some really big shoes to fill.. if it doesnt live up to it theres alot of disapointment... it looks nice but def not a fan.... FCK 4B11!!! 4G IS WHERE ITS AT
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: York, Pennsylvania
I'm 17, and I don't own an Evolution, so take that into consideration when you read what I've got to say.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow VIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow VIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
Last edited by DylanPS; Feb 3, 2008 at 10:02 AM.
Come on mitsuboost, this is the kind of crud we would like to avoid. Making just raw statements with no data == a big waste of space. Can you believe some computer somewhere has to actually store this non-sense? Instead of just being rude how about try filling out the following form:
I _______ am not a big fan of the __________ because it doesnt do __________
Give examples, otherwise your statements are worthless.
I _______ am not a big fan of the __________ because it doesnt do __________
Give examples, otherwise your statements are worthless.
I'm 17, and I don't own an Evolution, so take that into consideration when you read what I've got to say.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow XIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow XIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 477
Likes: 32
From: VT
That may be true for some, but not me. I've always wanted an Evo, but could never afford one. I bought an '03 OZ Rally, because that's as close as I could get to one, in terms of name & some styling. I know, beyond that, they are not similar. But, i've always wanted one, and now I have the ability to get one. The X just has some added features that I like, while still being a performance car. I like the redesigned interior, over the old. The VIII & IX interior, other than seats, look a lot like my OZ did. I don't want to shell out 37k for that. The new MR just fits me better & it is a new car, which I've never previously had. I also know I'm going to get some unwanted looks from other drivers because it is still an Evo, but I don't think it will get as many as an VIII or XI would. They just have really aggressive cuts.
Honestly I think this thread sums up everything. There are those that wish Mitsu had kept the aggressive rally beast they had for nine generations, and those that want a more refined, "gentleman's" Evo. Neither side is right or wrong, but there will certainly be a clash.
Heck, the XI could be a hybrid and newer owners would praise it as a worthy "evolution" to the line...but many on this board would think otherwise. Just look at those old 4 banger "Mustangs" in the 70's. They sold pretty well, but you won't find any hardcore Mustang lovers riding in them. The change on the X is not quite as drastic, but for many it's a step in the wrong direction.
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 101
From: NR Reading PA
All:
Most of you guys have accused me of being a X hater. And the reason why that is is because of the skepticism I have displayed about the new platform.
If we all take a step back for a minute, you will see that in general, a new car is supposed to be better than it's older platform. If that weren't the case then many people wouldn't purchase the newer car. So for whatever reason (i.e. looks, desire for something new, research, etc..) people bought this car, it is natural for them to want the car to succeed and be a natural evolution from the previous generation. Here's where I have a problem:
As Buschur noted in is blog about the X, the older gen cars have left an extremely good impression on the entire automotive industry. It would take him extensive research and testing to make him "jump" on the bandwagon of this new technology. That is someone that's being a realist and practically the same train of thought that I've had since the beginning.
Someone mentioned that I hate on the EVO X to justify my car note. Even though my car is paid off (as well as all the performance modifications done to the car), that hits the nail right on the head with respect to some of the EVO X purchasers. What irritates me is every little piece of positive information that has come from the tuners/shops up to this point has been received with overreactive responses. Sometimes to the point of downright false impressions.
Example:
Tuner: We've gained almost 15whp and 40wtq from taking off the airbox and leaning up the mixture a few points since the car came stock really really rich (9.0+AFRs) from the factory..
Response: Wow! The X is sick!!
Reality: The car is abnormally rich from the factory, so any kind of leaning out of the mixture is *going* to yield substantial gains. It doesn't mean the car is a monster, a horsepower increase freak, or anything else like that..
So when I make comments like the above "Reality" post, I get flamed for being a hater.
Look, the bottom line IMO is the EVO VIII/IX were made legends in the US. The enormous effort put into those cars to give them the impression of the way people see them today didn't come overnight and wasn't quickly labelled a beast car from a few dyno pulls. Those cars had to earn the reputation they did. This is the same with the Supra TT and the RX7 TT (which still hasn't been superceded by either Mazda or Toyota). Any realist would believe that the chances of Mitsubishi being that consistent in their engineering in just 1 year of development is a hard pill to swallow. That's where the skepticism comes in.
So please try to understand my position (I'm sure there are others out there that feel the same way I do) and hopefully that will dilute your strong opinion that I'm a X hater, I'm just logically skeptical about the X and it will take more proven tests and scenarios to make me believe that Mitsubishi has created back-to-back engineering phenomenom.
-M
PS. Mods: If I'm out of line with making this thread, then by all means go ahead and delete it. Thanks!
Most of you guys have accused me of being a X hater. And the reason why that is is because of the skepticism I have displayed about the new platform.
If we all take a step back for a minute, you will see that in general, a new car is supposed to be better than it's older platform. If that weren't the case then many people wouldn't purchase the newer car. So for whatever reason (i.e. looks, desire for something new, research, etc..) people bought this car, it is natural for them to want the car to succeed and be a natural evolution from the previous generation. Here's where I have a problem:
As Buschur noted in is blog about the X, the older gen cars have left an extremely good impression on the entire automotive industry. It would take him extensive research and testing to make him "jump" on the bandwagon of this new technology. That is someone that's being a realist and practically the same train of thought that I've had since the beginning.
Someone mentioned that I hate on the EVO X to justify my car note. Even though my car is paid off (as well as all the performance modifications done to the car), that hits the nail right on the head with respect to some of the EVO X purchasers. What irritates me is every little piece of positive information that has come from the tuners/shops up to this point has been received with overreactive responses. Sometimes to the point of downright false impressions.
Example:
Tuner: We've gained almost 15whp and 40wtq from taking off the airbox and leaning up the mixture a few points since the car came stock really really rich (9.0+AFRs) from the factory..
Response: Wow! The X is sick!!
Reality: The car is abnormally rich from the factory, so any kind of leaning out of the mixture is *going* to yield substantial gains. It doesn't mean the car is a monster, a horsepower increase freak, or anything else like that..
So when I make comments like the above "Reality" post, I get flamed for being a hater.
Look, the bottom line IMO is the EVO VIII/IX were made legends in the US. The enormous effort put into those cars to give them the impression of the way people see them today didn't come overnight and wasn't quickly labelled a beast car from a few dyno pulls. Those cars had to earn the reputation they did. This is the same with the Supra TT and the RX7 TT (which still hasn't been superceded by either Mazda or Toyota). Any realist would believe that the chances of Mitsubishi being that consistent in their engineering in just 1 year of development is a hard pill to swallow. That's where the skepticism comes in.
So please try to understand my position (I'm sure there are others out there that feel the same way I do) and hopefully that will dilute your strong opinion that I'm a X hater, I'm just logically skeptical about the X and it will take more proven tests and scenarios to make me believe that Mitsubishi has created back-to-back engineering phenomenom.
-M
PS. Mods: If I'm out of line with making this thread, then by all means go ahead and delete it. Thanks!
You are welcomed and entitled to your own "reality" and opinions.
However, it is a problem when your "skepticism" starts to dominate a forum and choke the discussion by those who want information about the X. Your thread title establishing adversarial labels is baiting (intentional or not). Edit: Original title was "Why I hate the Evo X: The Evo X Fanboys".
The Evo X is a completely different car that is just now getting in the hands of owners. Give your fellow members an opportunity to discuss their cars unencumbered by off topic comments and questions. Your continuing attempt to draw comparisons and conclusions between the 9 and 10 is premature and at the least discourteous.
Speedlimit..
Last edited by Speedlimit; Feb 4, 2008 at 06:18 AM.
I'm 17, and I don't own an Evolution, so take that into consideration when you read what I've got to say.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow XIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
I remember when I was 13, and my dad took a friend and I down to see the first Evo that our local dealer got. It was a yellow XIII, and it was somewhat a euphoria for me because I was sitting in the car I'd been driving around on Trial Mountian for 2/3rds of my childhood. But now that I'm driving, I'm not sure I'd be able to drive that car everyday. Sure it's cool, but I'd presume that it'd get a little annoying to drive after a while (again, I don't have one, so just a presumption). I think when Mitsubishi designed the car they were aiming for fans of the 8 and 9 that are now in their 30's, married and with kids. It's safer, quieter, softer: basically, more wife and kids friendly. I guess I can see why Mitsubishi is widening the appeal, they aren't doing so great in the U.S.
But I think that the car still stays true to its roots, it's just a bit more user friendly. After all, it is called the Evolution, isn't it?
Again, I've never driven either, so that's just how I see it from what I've heard. No one can judge it till they've driven it for a while.
"Your continuing attempt to draw comparisons and conclusions between the 9 and 10 is premature and at the least discourteous."
i dont wanna be a d*&ck but not this is what some tuner shop does too?
i dont wanna be a d*&ck but not this is what some tuner shop does too?
You are welcomed and entitled to your own "reality" and opinions. However, it is a problem when your "skepticism" starts to dominate a forum and choke the discussion by those who want information about the X. Your thread title establishing adversarial labels is baiting (intentional or not). The Evo X is a completely different car that is just now getting in the hands of owners. Give your fellow members an opportunity to discuss their cars unencumbered by off topic comments and questions. Your continuing attempt to draw comparisons and conclusions between the 9 and 10 is premature and at the least discourteous.
Speedlimit..
However, it is a problem when your "skepticism" starts to dominate a forum and choke the discussion by those who want information about the X. Your thread title establishing adversarial labels is baiting (intentional or not). The Evo X is a completely different car that is just now getting in the hands of owners. Give your fellow members an opportunity to discuss their cars unencumbered by off topic comments and questions. Your continuing attempt to draw comparisons and conclusions between the 9 and 10 is premature and at the least discourteous.Speedlimit..
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: York, Pennsylvania
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: York, Pennsylvania
Yeah, I agree, because I would love to have one. I was just saying I think that's where Mitsu was aiming.
Evolving Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 477
Likes: 32
From: VT
Wow. 19 and able to afford a car that will undoubtedly cost 40k+? I'd love to have a job that pays so much to someone that hasn't even been through college yet--sign me up! lol