Toyota GT 86 world debut !!
Here is the thing: if you have trouble grasping the appeal of this car, go drive one (when it comes out). If it captures some of the indescribable magic of the older Toyotas/BMWs/VWs/etc., then it is worth the price of admission and then some. The Lotus Elise does that. It is extremely fun to drive, although it cannot be considered "powerful". It doesn't shred its rear tires. It doesn't leave massive black slicks off of the line. BUT, "getting it right" in an Elise, without 4WD, without S-AYC, without an active center differential, without enough power to recover in a straight is something that requires concentration and is incredibly rewarding. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, it doesn't mean that there is something wrong with you or that you are not a "true car enthusiast". It just means that cars like this are not for you. That does mean that your Evolution was an extremely good choice, given your preferences. There is nothing wrong with that.
Essentially, we are arguing something that cannot logically be evaluated. It is a feeling, and, like everything else, feelings can often be more powerful than shear logical firepower.
I don't think it's a bad looking car at all, and I like how tiny it is. I'm just not sure how this car is better than an S2000 was. I get the "fun to drive" aspect, and that's a huge deal for me. My S2000 definitely wasn't the fastest car I owned, but it was by far the most fun to drive. Even with as fun to drive as it was, I always wanted more power from that engine, and it made 40 more hp than the Toyobaru will. They could have at least threw us a bone and made it turbo from the factory so that it wouldn't be so hard to get more power out of it.
I'm going to sit this one out until they put out a more powerful version. I really like everything about the car except for the engine. Maybe the aftermarket will be able to get the car up to 300hp for less than $10k, and in that case, I'd be interested.
I'm going to sit this one out until they put out a more powerful version. I really like everything about the car except for the engine. Maybe the aftermarket will be able to get the car up to 300hp for less than $10k, and in that case, I'd be interested.
Driven: Toyota GT 86
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...ota_gt_86.html
We've driven Toyota's new GT 86 rear-drive sports coupe - and on first impressions, it's brilliant
What is it?
It seems like this car has been speculated over and reported on for years, but finally this Toyota coupe, and its Subaru sister, are here in final production form.
Known in Toyota guise as FT 86 ('Future Toyota') up to now, the car you'll be able to buy from June 2012, with prices starting around £25,000, is now called GT 86. Subaru's version, the BRZ, differs only in the shape of the front air intake, trim details and some suspension settings.
The GT 86 is that now-rare concoction, a simple, affordable, rear-drive coupé designed for pure driving amusement without being burdened by excessive technology – a sort of faster, sharper MX-5 with a coupe body. It uses Subaru-flavoured componentry, specifically a 1998cc flat-four engine and a platform derived from that of the just-launched new Impreza, but the idea of a front engine and rear-wheel drive is a welcome return to what used to work so well.
GT 86 development engineer Yoshi Sasaki says the GT 86 is for those who are bored with cars that are too powerful with their turbo engines, have too much grip with their huge tyres and four-wheel drive, cost too much and don't let the driver do enough. 'A fun car,' he says, 'is a car that you control.'
Technical highlights?
There's 197bhp at 7000rpm on offer here, but the fact that the 152lb ft torque peak arrives at 6600rpm tells you much about how this engine is going to feel. It has both indirect and direct injection, switching between them as needed, and a high 12.5 to one compression ratio. The six-speed gearbox is borrowed from the Toyota Altezza (Japanese-market Lexus IS), or you can have a six-speed, torque-converter auto from the Lexus IS-F.
Suspension is by struts at the front, double wishbones at the back, there's a Torsen LSD and – cue flash of techno-anxiety – the power steering is electric. Weight distribution is slightly rear-biased, total weight is 1190kg and the centre of gravity is said to be lower than a Cayman's.
What's it like to drive?
It restores your faith in cars. No excuses, no unsaid undercurrent that makes the best of the fact that cars are generally becoming more synthetic and less involving to drive. The GT 86 is a complete cracker.
Here's why. Our encounter took place on the Sodeguara racetrack outside Tokyo, full of bends and dips and lightly coated with rain. You need a car with sensitive controls for a track like that, and within half a lap you feel completely at ease in the GT 86 as rush right up to its limits. Via possibly the best electric steering system we've yet encountered, with much more subtle sensitivity than the new 911's system and a more mechnically-connected feel about the centre, you can exploit a balance perfectly tunable with the tiniest throttle inputs. Take a corner briskly and there's stabilising understeer; accelerate a bit and the understeer vanishes as the tail starts to dominate. From there to a drift is a land of opportunity with abundant signposting. Seldom is a car so up for a friendly game.
The brakes are similarly progressive, while the engine does its best work at high revs where it emits a beaty rasp somewhere between the sound of an Alfasud and a regular Subaru, but without the bass throb. Six closely stacked gear ratios make the best of the engine's peakiness. The auto alternative works well enough, if without quite the smappiness of a double-clutcher, but the manual is obviously the one to have.
Obviously we will have to wait to get one in the UK to deliver the definitive verdict on how it copes with real, bumpy roads - but on first impressions, it's brilliant.
How does it compare?
It makes a Scirocco seem synthetic, an RCZ anaesthetised, a 3-series Coupé over-complicated. This is a pure driving device like an Elise or an MX-5 with sharpened sinews. This is how a proper sporting coupé should be. Toyota intended it to embody elements of the 1960s 2000GT and the 1980s rear-drive Corolla Twin-Cam (AE86), and it does.
Anything else I need to know?
It's a two-plus-two, but Yoshi Sasaki says hopes the rear space will be used to carry trackday wheels – it's that sort of car. The interior is functional and well-finished, with a low driving position and no unnecessary gadgetry.
It's also the first front-engined, rear-drive, flat-four sports car since the 1950s Jowett Jupiter. Tell that to your mates at the pub. (On second thoughts, don't.)
The car looks better in the metal than in pictures. And if you drive one, you'll want to own one.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...ota_gt_86.html
We've driven Toyota's new GT 86 rear-drive sports coupe - and on first impressions, it's brilliant
What is it?
It seems like this car has been speculated over and reported on for years, but finally this Toyota coupe, and its Subaru sister, are here in final production form.
Known in Toyota guise as FT 86 ('Future Toyota') up to now, the car you'll be able to buy from June 2012, with prices starting around £25,000, is now called GT 86. Subaru's version, the BRZ, differs only in the shape of the front air intake, trim details and some suspension settings.
The GT 86 is that now-rare concoction, a simple, affordable, rear-drive coupé designed for pure driving amusement without being burdened by excessive technology – a sort of faster, sharper MX-5 with a coupe body. It uses Subaru-flavoured componentry, specifically a 1998cc flat-four engine and a platform derived from that of the just-launched new Impreza, but the idea of a front engine and rear-wheel drive is a welcome return to what used to work so well.
GT 86 development engineer Yoshi Sasaki says the GT 86 is for those who are bored with cars that are too powerful with their turbo engines, have too much grip with their huge tyres and four-wheel drive, cost too much and don't let the driver do enough. 'A fun car,' he says, 'is a car that you control.'
Technical highlights?
There's 197bhp at 7000rpm on offer here, but the fact that the 152lb ft torque peak arrives at 6600rpm tells you much about how this engine is going to feel. It has both indirect and direct injection, switching between them as needed, and a high 12.5 to one compression ratio. The six-speed gearbox is borrowed from the Toyota Altezza (Japanese-market Lexus IS), or you can have a six-speed, torque-converter auto from the Lexus IS-F.
Suspension is by struts at the front, double wishbones at the back, there's a Torsen LSD and – cue flash of techno-anxiety – the power steering is electric. Weight distribution is slightly rear-biased, total weight is 1190kg and the centre of gravity is said to be lower than a Cayman's.
What's it like to drive?
It restores your faith in cars. No excuses, no unsaid undercurrent that makes the best of the fact that cars are generally becoming more synthetic and less involving to drive. The GT 86 is a complete cracker.
Here's why. Our encounter took place on the Sodeguara racetrack outside Tokyo, full of bends and dips and lightly coated with rain. You need a car with sensitive controls for a track like that, and within half a lap you feel completely at ease in the GT 86 as rush right up to its limits. Via possibly the best electric steering system we've yet encountered, with much more subtle sensitivity than the new 911's system and a more mechnically-connected feel about the centre, you can exploit a balance perfectly tunable with the tiniest throttle inputs. Take a corner briskly and there's stabilising understeer; accelerate a bit and the understeer vanishes as the tail starts to dominate. From there to a drift is a land of opportunity with abundant signposting. Seldom is a car so up for a friendly game.
The brakes are similarly progressive, while the engine does its best work at high revs where it emits a beaty rasp somewhere between the sound of an Alfasud and a regular Subaru, but without the bass throb. Six closely stacked gear ratios make the best of the engine's peakiness. The auto alternative works well enough, if without quite the smappiness of a double-clutcher, but the manual is obviously the one to have.
Obviously we will have to wait to get one in the UK to deliver the definitive verdict on how it copes with real, bumpy roads - but on first impressions, it's brilliant.
How does it compare?
It makes a Scirocco seem synthetic, an RCZ anaesthetised, a 3-series Coupé over-complicated. This is a pure driving device like an Elise or an MX-5 with sharpened sinews. This is how a proper sporting coupé should be. Toyota intended it to embody elements of the 1960s 2000GT and the 1980s rear-drive Corolla Twin-Cam (AE86), and it does.
Anything else I need to know?
It's a two-plus-two, but Yoshi Sasaki says hopes the rear space will be used to carry trackday wheels – it's that sort of car. The interior is functional and well-finished, with a low driving position and no unnecessary gadgetry.
It's also the first front-engined, rear-drive, flat-four sports car since the 1950s Jowett Jupiter. Tell that to your mates at the pub. (On second thoughts, don't.)
The car looks better in the metal than in pictures. And if you drive one, you'll want to own one.
Realistically, how hard could it be to remove that motor and use an STi setup, instead? Granted, I know nothing about Subarus. I am operating under the assumption that most Subaru motors seem to be pretty similar. I could be wrong.
There is supposed to be a 300hp STI version made I read it some where, but here is an interesting article:
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/...-ar120769.html
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/...-ar120769.html
Both Toyota and Subaru have said that any late model boxer 4 is a direct bolt in. They also said, that the ecu will be flashable.
This is nice.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl...layer_embedded
This is nice.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl...layer_embedded
Last edited by black95tt; Dec 6, 2011 at 07:47 PM.
As i said before, there's no shortage of low powered good handling machines on the market. This is just a different flavor of the same combination. For this car to be great, it needs a more powerful optional turbo engine.
It's relative. For you and your skill level, low power and good handling is fun. For me, higher power and good handling does equal to more fun. Also, i have alot of track time experience with alot of different cars, so I have driven this combo (low powered good handling) many times before. Honestly, it's entertaining for a 20-30 minute session at the beginning of an event and then I'm ready to move on to a higher performing machine (with both power and handling) for some "real" fun. In addition, it's clear that you can't handle power and you'll crash, so this car should fit you perfectly. Outside of track events, this car will be hard pressed to pass a family car (such as a V6 Camry) on a mountain road or other situations where it would be beneficial to have more power.
As i said before, there's no shortage of low powered good handling machines on the market. This is just a different flavor of the same combination. For this car to be great, it needs a more powerful optional turbo engine.
As i said before, there's no shortage of low powered good handling machines on the market. This is just a different flavor of the same combination. For this car to be great, it needs a more powerful optional turbo engine.
Lol, assuming you know anything about my "skill" level. It has nothing to do with skill actually. Even pro drivers find low HP but easy to toss around cars fun. It sounds like your just the type of guy who needs power to have fun or to over compensate, if we're going to start making bold assumptions.
I enjoy power and handling, you enjoy handling with no power. Sounds like you need a machine to match your abilities.