Have you had a chance to dyno a GT86 or BRZ with modifications yet? I assume with your knowledge, you must work for some manufacturer by now.

That jalopnik article sums it up nicely.

 

I don't know why but Jalopnik specifically has been hyping this car to an over the top level for a while now. Don't be fooled, the 86/BRZ/FRS has all the same electronic nannies, stability control, traction control and power assisted steering as every other car on the market.

Some of the rabid fans of this car is this thread should really take a step back and objectively look at this car. Why are you buying the hype to such an extreme extent? Subaru/Toyota marketing should win an award for this car.

 

Huh? It seems like every reviewer is commenting how the car feels "free" and is easy to toss around. It's hardly limited to jalopnik and at some point, you have to step back and realize that if everyone is saying it, it's no longer hype.

 

The engine will be difficult to make more power out of. I also have it on good authority that Toyota had a difficult time hitting the power target of 200hp and that TRD also will NOT be doing a supercharger kit for it; that's okay though as there's a much higher probability that Subaru will make a turbo version (http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...86fr-sbrz.aspx).

Now, on to why it'll be difficult to make significantly more power out of this thing. A good engine to compare will be the Honda F20c out of the S2000 with both engines being 2.0L. Everyone knows the F20c made 120hp/L, and it's taken until the last couple years for Ferrari and Porsche to match with the F458 and GT3RS.

So the F20c made 240hp at 9k rpms which translates into 140 lb-ft of torque. The 86/BRZ has a redline of 7400rpms. Take that torque figure of 140 and plug it in at 7400rpms and guess how much power you get.... anybody? 197hp. Hey, that looks like the rating for the FRS from Toyota.

S2000s put down roughly 200whp stock. S2000s running cold-air intakes, headers, exhaust, test pipe, and tuning will only put down about 230whp. That's roughly $4k in parts to make a 15% gain. Additionally, not smog legal and loud as hell. So that's about 134wtq.

Take that 134 wtq at 7400rpms and that'll be 189whp. That's a pretty good estimate of what this FRS/BRZ will max out at staying NA with intake, header, test pipe, exhaust, and tuning, up from an estimated 167whp stock. The power could be increased if the redline were extended, but even if it could be used to 8500rpms, that still only 216whp, assuming the heads flow well.

 

Good authority? So now we have people with ins at Toyota or Subaru posting on here? Anyways, until tuners get their hands on the car, we don't know what's possible. The F20 motor is over a decade old at this point. Yes I see the point you're making but until people start trying, all we can do is speculate.

 

Yes. I know engineers at both Toyota and Subaru. And also Ford, GM, Nissan, Honda and Kia. I use to have friends at BMW and Mercedes. Oh yeah, I know an engineer at Audi in Germany.

As for 'what's possible', there's a limit and it's called science.

 

And until we get all the facts, we can't properly apply the science. Generally speaking, science is based on evidence and data, not speculation based on incomplete facts.

 

Well it would appear you are completely wrong about that. It has already been said, by numerous sources, that supercharged test mules are already on the road. Those same sources said that a turbo version was absolutely out of the question (even though there will be a turbo version of that motor for other platforms). I will tend to agree though, that in N/A trim, it is probably going to be difficult to get much more out of it.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...the-works.html

As for hype? Wasn't there this same kind of hype when the GTR came out? Or the Evo in 2003? On the cover of every magazine? The top of every car forum, countless articles? The GTR seems to be blowing expectations away. I also remember it not being as well received by some reviews. So it does go both ways. The hype for this car is from those that have had seat time in it and sincerely believe that it is a great driving car. Why can't anyone appreciate that? If you don't like it, don't buy it. Why do you give a **** about the hype? I don't get it.

 

I'm going to say that the author misquoted in saying TRD and it should read that Toyota itself is working on a blower; Toyota and TRD are separate entities and really don't work with each other at all.

I'm still leaning heavily towards BS though as it's essentially a Subaru engine for which Subaru already has a turbo setup. Why would Toyota go through the trouble of doing another forced induction setup when one already exists? The cost to develop a kit is pretty staggering as they have to go through OEM levels of validation on the engineering side, tooling and sourcing parts on the supplier side, and then dealing with parts inventory, distribution, etc for an inferior setup to the turbo setup.

 

I don't believe there is any turbo already developed for this engine. This engine is brand new. Direct injection, different heads, etc.

 

All aboard the hype train! They (Toyota and Subaru PR) must have REALLY paid this dude off well.

"I am usually extremely critical of new cars, but there is hardly anything I can fault the FR-S on. I'd have to really nitpick because as it is, this is an astonishingly good ride. I literally haven't had this much fun in a car at a track in a very long time. I can't wait to get my hands on a production model and take it up to some touge to see if it shines as much on mountain passes as it does around a smooth track. "

Full review:

http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011...sodegaura.aspx

 

2.0L NA engine going into the BRZ:


1.6L turbo, which looks nearly identical externally, so I'd guess only bore x stroke difference. It doesn't take much imagination to take the turbo setup off the 1.6L and put it on the 2.0L. Plus, the next generation Legecy GT is already confirmed 2.0L flat four turbo. Again, makes sense to use the same engine block as they're not going to develop two different 2.0L engine blocks.

 

I'm not saying there isn't anything in the works, I just said there is nothing already designed and put into production for this engine specifically, which is what I thought you were implying.

 

I'd venture that we'll see a turbo version in two years. Back when WRX came out in 2002, Subaru said there wouldn't be a STI version for the States. Then two years later, they brought over the STI. We'll see if history repeats itself.

 

The Evolution in 2003 was a almost a completely unprecedented vehicle in the NA market. A rally inspired four door car with the tuning potential of a Supra, the 2003 Evolution embarrassed nearly every other car on the market when it was released in 2003. Not to mention it had a huge international following.

The GTR similarly was the first introduction of the GTR series to our market, not to mention the 2009 GTR was promising a world beating super car which retailed for under 70 grand.

Both vehicles in many ways pushed the boundaries and are on the edge of technology and performance.

Just the fact that you have the ***** to compare this Miata competitor in the same sentence as those two icons proves how much of Toyota's marketing you have swallowed without even the opportunity to test drive it.

I have no problems saying that the 86/BRZ/FRS will be an OK car. I'm a little confused about all these people who are pretending that Toyota/Subaru have invented anything new with this car, and there is nothing new in this platform which wasn't available all long in the form of Mazda Miata, Mazda RX-8, Honda S2000. For some reason you weren't "lining up at the dealership" to buy any of those cars.

So again, I say Toyota deserves a damned award for the marketing of this vehicle.