It's things like this that make me question what your motivations are. Is there really such an extreme reaction to things like "hey guys, maybe you shouldn't take those pre production reviews so seriously, and wait until you test drive", also "hey guys, here's a few other examples of cars which are similar to the BRZ which maybe you forgot about"

You simply don't know what you're taking about. What is the difference in stiffness between a Miata with a hard top and a FRS? You can't answer that, so you lose.

 

Lol, yeah, you got me. I can't give you a quantifiable number comparing the stiffness of two vehicles, therefore everything I've said is BS and we should all just buy Evos. Nevermind the fact that your basic argument is flawed .

 

It's fine man, it's taken plenty of posts, a ton of *****ing and whining, and a circus of excuses and random personal attacks against me, but I think you've finally somewhat admitted the car is a Miata competitor. Cheers

 

I've never said anyone should buy an Evo instead of the FRS in this entire thread, again putting words in my mouth. The Evo and FRS are in two different classes, doing very different things, and are very different cars. No one is cross shopping them. The same is not true of the Miata and FRS, or RX8 and FRS.

Funny how you can't admit to being wrong. you can't give a qualitative difference in the stiffness because you can't drive the FRS yet. I'd recommend you go drive a S2000 CR and a Evo X MR back to back - the S2000 CR is stiffer on stock suspension despite being a convertible. It's pretty sad you can't even admit that point.

 

What point? You're not making any objective point. You too have not driven the FRS or GT86 so how would you know how it compares to the S2000 or Miata?

 

I never personally attacked you. I think you don't know what the hell you are talking about though, and you certainly aren't contributing anything positive to this thread. Clearly this isn't the car for you, we get that. Why click the thread at all then?

 

Kind of funny how you go from broad sweeping speculative generalizations such as "all convertibles are less stiff then coupes" then three posts later "stop speculating you haven't driven the FRS". By the way, thanks for making my own point (even if you are pretending that you are making it yourself) - I originally said several posts ago that you can't say the FRS is stiffer then a Miata, because you haven't driven the FRS yet. Geez

 

I'm contributing my thoughts on the car to this thread. Specifically, why I think it's over hyped. Sure, it's not all positive, but there's no reason it should be all positive unless you are on the Toyota sales team.

And for the record, I am interested in the car.

 

Actually, I qualified my statement with this

Thus, if all else is held equal, a coupe will be stiffer than a convertible. A coupe Miata would be stiffer than a convertible Miata. Now then, given that we're talking about two sports cars, it is probably a safe assumption that a modern coupe would be or will be stiffer than an older convertible like the Miata. However, this is but one reason to dispute your statement

I own a Miata. I have a hard top. I would gladly buy a coupe Miata if it was available at the time I bought my car. Here's another reason, most racing organizations require a roll bar for any convertible. I had to install a roll bar to race my Miata, even in a non-competitive sense. By contrast, coupe owners can show up and drive on track, no questions asked.

There are also more subjective reasons like look, noise, etc. A hard top is not the same as an actual roof.

However, feel free to continue telling yourself whatever BS you need to justify posting as you do.

 

^-- here we go again. For a guy who earlier rallied so much against "speculative non sense" you should can spit it.

"it's safe assumption that an older convertible won't be as stiff as a newer coupe"

"it's safe to assume an aftermarket hard top won't be as quiet as a coupe"

Why not wait until a test drive before making so many assumptions? Which again, was my point earlier.

 

This whole thing came up because you appear to be asserting that the car is basically just an S2000 or Miata, in complete ignorance and dismissal of the fact the BRZ/GT86 is a coupe while the others are convertible. You then appeared to want to argue that not wanting a hardtop was not a valid concern. This raises the obvious issue that a convertible with a hardtop is not equivalent to a coupe because of a variety of issues, including stiffness. That is but one point and is not even needed to dismiss your BS argument as just that, BS.

OK lets ignore the stiffness component. Other reasons to want a coupe like the BRZ, not a convertible like a Miata or S2000.

1. Coupe doesn't require a roll bar for track use.
2. Coupe could be quieter than a convertible.
3. Coupe could be less windy than a convertible.
4. People like the way the BRZ looks over a Miata or S2000.

 

Roll bar is less then 100$ that's hardly an awesome point, 2 & 3 are speculative, and so the only reason you can come up with to own the BRZ is that it looks better. Awesome.

Like I said, wait until the test drive. Who knows, it could blow the Miata out of the water in terms of handling but I am very skeptical of that.

And yes, on paper, this car is no different then an S2000 or Miata, or RX-8, and in many ways, on paper, it is worse then those cars (heavier, slower, more expensive even).

Beyond that, I will reserve judgement until we can test drive them, and the only review I would take somewhat seriously would be a comparison review with cars in the price point (which hasn't even been officially announced) - even those are well known to be bought and paid for with advertising dollars in car mags. Just being real here.

 

On topic with an unrelated point - does anyone else think Subaru might have a more difficult time selling these then Toyota?

I mean, you put the FRS next to the TC, and it's obvious why the FRS is priced higher. It is lighter and faster (maybe ).

Put the BRZ next to a WRX and I think it's a tough sell. WRX might be priced similar or even lower, offer more utility, more performance, and similar mileage. You take a test drive of a WRX and it's an exciting experience. A test drive of a BRZ around the block with a salesman in the car - I think it may be a tough sell.

Yes, the WRX and BRZ are very different, but I would be hard pressed to choose the BRZ over the WRX in a show room I think.

 

looks like a hyundai tiburon

 

What roll bars you buying? A good roll bar is closer to $500. Moreover, a roll bar drastically changes a car. It's not a simple bolt on part, even if the roll bar is described as bolt-in, which often requires drilling new holes.

Coming from someone who, you know, actually owns a Miata with a hardtop, it's noisy. This is true of the new Miata with the power hardtop as well. It is a common theme among convertibles. Not an absolute trait, but a common one.

Subjective reasons are everything. If we all bought cars because of truly objective traits, we'd all logically drive the same cars or there would be but a few cars necessary to satisfy the various factors that go into objectively deciding what is best for someone.

Clearly this car is not for you so why don't you go back to the Evo forums and stop just stirring **** up for no reason other than to bash a car you don't like and don't want to like? The fact you're comparing the car to a WRX is a pretty clear indication that you don't get it. Nobody would cross shop a car like this against the WRX anymore than someone would cross shop a Mazda3 against a Miata or a Honda Accord against an S2000.