Toyota GT 86 world debut !!
Sorry, is there supposed to be some evidence or data here? Maybe you forgot to add the link or the dyno graphs. Seriously though, until the car comes out, and tuners like Cobb, AMS, etc. get to work on it, we won't know. Maybe the exhaust is poorly designed, maybe the intake is choking, maybe the cams are super mild, we just don't know.
Subaru is finally stepping up there game, building a new engine, building a new platform and trying to catch up with everything else out on the market right now. But...
Mitsubishi > Subaru
P.S:
^ Stupid Advert Spam Bots! Ban Ban Ban
Mitsubishi > Subaru
P.S:
wow, don't miss here: Dumb Link! this XBox 360 Vampire is so horrible
Last edited by Live4Redline; Dec 11, 2011 at 08:44 PM.
Sorry, is there supposed to be some evidence or data here? Maybe you forgot to add the link or the dyno graphs. Seriously though, until the car comes out, and tuners like Cobb, AMS, etc. get to work on it, we won't know. Maybe the exhaust is poorly designed, maybe the intake is choking, maybe the cams are super mild, we just don't know.
Also, it's clear that you don't have alot of personal experience extracting power from small n/a engines, because if you did, you'll know that you'll not going to make big gains like you would on a force induction engine; with an aftermarket exhaust, intake, cams, and retune. In addition, considering that the peak hp (7000rpm) and tq (6600rpm) is further up the rpm band, it's highly unlikely to have "super mild" cams. Even if you changed to super aggressive cams it's not going to yield huge numbers (especially in a usable power band for street driving) on a small n/a motor.
As i stated before, everything becomes golden with a turbo options, but if we're stuck with the n/a in it's current form. Making a bunch of power will not be easy.
There's so much information from the specifications, that if you actually knew something about cars, how they work, how they respond to modifications, you would have accurately extrapolated all the information for yourself, instead of posting 90%+ of your fanboi junk (even worse that you don't own the car).
Also, it's clear that you don't have alot of personal experience extracting power from small n/a engines, because if you did, you'll know that you'll not going to make big gains like you would on a force induction engine; with an aftermarket exhaust, intake, cams, and retune. In addition, considering that the peak hp (7000rpm) and tq (6600rpm) is further up the rpm band, it's highly unlikely to have "super mild" cams. Even if you changed to super aggressive cams it's not going to yield huge numbers (especially in a usable power band for street driving) on a small n/a motor.
As i stated before, everything becomes golden with a turbo options, but if we're stuck with the n/a in it's current form. Making a bunch of power will not be easy.
Also, it's clear that you don't have alot of personal experience extracting power from small n/a engines, because if you did, you'll know that you'll not going to make big gains like you would on a force induction engine; with an aftermarket exhaust, intake, cams, and retune. In addition, considering that the peak hp (7000rpm) and tq (6600rpm) is further up the rpm band, it's highly unlikely to have "super mild" cams. Even if you changed to super aggressive cams it's not going to yield huge numbers (especially in a usable power band for street driving) on a small n/a motor.
As i stated before, everything becomes golden with a turbo options, but if we're stuck with the n/a in it's current form. Making a bunch of power will not be easy.
More speculation. Until there's evidence, all this is meaningless. We have no idea what the car will do with mods, none. Of course it's not going to produce the same gains as a turbocharged engine but that doesn't mean it's maxed out as you suggested earlier. We simply do not know at this point.
More speculation. Until there's evidence, all this is meaningless. We have no idea what the car will do with mods, none. Of course it's not going to produce the same gains as a turbocharged engine but that doesn't mean it's maxed out as you suggested earlier. We simply do not know at this point. Yep, you're the "Good Will Hunting" genius of evom. Naturally just looking at the numbers released, you can figure out all the intricate specifications of the motor, how it's tuned, it's limitations, etc. You must be the greatest engineer in the world, it's a wonder you haven't been snapped up by Ferrari yet to design their next F1 car.Until we get some modified GT 86s or BRZs, we have no idea what mods will produce what gains. Of course we won't see 100 HP with a tune but that doesn't mean the motor is maxed out.
Did you even read my posts about the n/a motor or are you comprehension challenged as well as your lack of understanding of automobiles?
I suggest you save face while you can and do seppuku.
Post #138 in case you missed it.
Of course it's not going to produce the same gains as a turbocharged engine but that doesn't mean it's maxed out as you suggested earlier.
From post #125.
As for all motor power, this engine is already near full potential from the factory, so don't expect to get much more from it. Maybe 20-30bhp without headwork and cams. And even if you do that, it's not going to be a whole lot more than that.
That being said, feel free to enlighten us all some more with your vast knowledge and seemingly endless skill. Maybe a racing team will read your posts, realize you're the key they've been missing and hire you so you can apply all your wisdom into building cars and winning races. It's clear you've got what it takes.
Last edited by ambystom01; Dec 12, 2011 at 12:32 AM.
Ok guys, back on track. An FRS showed up at the cars and coffee event in Irvine CA over the weekend. This thing looks effing great. It sounds great too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVPdJUtrLI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhVPdJUtrLI
Jalopnik has some great comments on this car's intent and its power level.
http://jalopnik.com/5866465/yes-toyo...n-save-driving
http://jalopnik.com/5866465/yes-toyo...n-save-driving
Lulled into stupor by your in-car DVD player and automatic butt massagers, you may not have noticed, but cars have gotten really, really boring in the last two decades. Sure, they're faster than ever — a 2011 Toyota Camry makes 21 more horsepower than a 1991 Porsche 911 — they're safer than ever and they're more luxurious than ever. But all the above have removed the whole purpose of cars: The driving itself. But change could now be on the horizon. Could a new product from the most beige of automakers forever restore the driver to his rightful place?
And I really do mean cars have gotten boring. Even equipped with a weekly rotation of the newest, most exciting cars on the planet and regular jaunts around the world to drive them on race tracks, I left as Jalopnik's road test editor last year, departing for the more involved climes of motorcycles. There simply wasn't a car on the market that was any longer capable of holding my interest; not when I could swap my driving shoes for a leather suit and actually be allowed to control a fast vehicle using only skill and physical inputs.
Don't believe me? Go bounce off the top speed governor of a CTS-V on the road. Rather than some feat of ridiculous human prowess, you just mash the pedal and point away from trees. Go drive an SLS AMG around Laguna Seca or, rather, sit along for the ride while the automatic transmission and undefeatable stability control do it for you. Hell, you can set lap records in a Porsche 911 GT3 RS all day long without really trying.
But that all changed a week ago when I walked into the reveal of the Scion FR-S here in Hollywood. The car in front of me wasn't about bull**** numbers that translate into very little experience. It wasn't about features and it wasn't about image. It's not designed to perfectly accentuate Mr. Bluetooth Earpiece's striped shirt or make Sally Homemaker feel rugged. Unlike literally every other car on the market in 2011, it's made to do one thing and one thing only. It's made to be driven.
There's been some *****ing in Jalop circles that the Scion FR-S/Toyota GT 86 and its Subaru BRZ cousin don't make headline-grabbing power figures. To them, I say, who cares? I've driven the most powerful cars on the planet and been bored to tears doing so. The problem is, that with ridiculous power, comes ridiculous liability.
No automaker is free to allow mere mortals to exploit a 556 HP luxury car without intervention. And I'm not talking about just the electronic kind. Chassis on those cars are tuned for safety, not driver involvement. Stability at high speeds, not agility in tight corners. The hugely wide and extremely low-profile tires needed to put that power to the road grip like hell, but utterly refuse to slide in a controllable manner. Where's the fun when you only have two choices on the menu: grip or spin?
In fact, the whole concept that speed somehow correlates with what we want to do as drivers is completely erroneous. I'm not in this to read some number off a dashboard, I drive cars and ride bikes to develop new skills, then practice them. I drive to participate in a landscape and, occasionally, to scare myself.
The best driver's car I've ever owned was a BMW that weighed 2,813 Lbs and made 167 HP. The Scionotabaru weighs 2,689 Lbs and makes 197 HP. That's plenty for me. That I'll be able to drive it without playing into the ideas that our midwestern and southern readers probably have about me and my skinny jeans and that I'll be able to carry luggage and occasionally some buddies in the back seats just makes it that much better.
To put those numbers in perspective, a current BMW M3 weighs 3,704 Lbs. Over 1,000 more than the Subionta. Where's the fun in that?
That the GT 86/86/FR-S/BRZ was able to get down to such a svelte weight without the use of exotic materials is indicative of its appeal. It doesn't need a carbon fiber roof or magnesium wheels or drillium pedals in order to perform. Which means you'll be able to make it perform for just $24,000. That's less than a VW Golf TDI. You can afford this car. You can afford to crash this car and you can afford to repair it. That means you can afford to really, really drive it. Hard. You can afford to modify it. You'll probably be able to do the maintenance yourself, in your driveway.
When I walked into that FR-S unveil I saw a car that was small, a car that was practical, a car that was unassuming, a car that was RWD, has a manual transmission, a light weight and perfect weight distribution. I saw a car that I wanted, badly. For the first time in a long time.
I'm planning on buying a BRZ. How about you?
And I really do mean cars have gotten boring. Even equipped with a weekly rotation of the newest, most exciting cars on the planet and regular jaunts around the world to drive them on race tracks, I left as Jalopnik's road test editor last year, departing for the more involved climes of motorcycles. There simply wasn't a car on the market that was any longer capable of holding my interest; not when I could swap my driving shoes for a leather suit and actually be allowed to control a fast vehicle using only skill and physical inputs.
Don't believe me? Go bounce off the top speed governor of a CTS-V on the road. Rather than some feat of ridiculous human prowess, you just mash the pedal and point away from trees. Go drive an SLS AMG around Laguna Seca or, rather, sit along for the ride while the automatic transmission and undefeatable stability control do it for you. Hell, you can set lap records in a Porsche 911 GT3 RS all day long without really trying.
But that all changed a week ago when I walked into the reveal of the Scion FR-S here in Hollywood. The car in front of me wasn't about bull**** numbers that translate into very little experience. It wasn't about features and it wasn't about image. It's not designed to perfectly accentuate Mr. Bluetooth Earpiece's striped shirt or make Sally Homemaker feel rugged. Unlike literally every other car on the market in 2011, it's made to do one thing and one thing only. It's made to be driven.
There's been some *****ing in Jalop circles that the Scion FR-S/Toyota GT 86 and its Subaru BRZ cousin don't make headline-grabbing power figures. To them, I say, who cares? I've driven the most powerful cars on the planet and been bored to tears doing so. The problem is, that with ridiculous power, comes ridiculous liability.
No automaker is free to allow mere mortals to exploit a 556 HP luxury car without intervention. And I'm not talking about just the electronic kind. Chassis on those cars are tuned for safety, not driver involvement. Stability at high speeds, not agility in tight corners. The hugely wide and extremely low-profile tires needed to put that power to the road grip like hell, but utterly refuse to slide in a controllable manner. Where's the fun when you only have two choices on the menu: grip or spin?
In fact, the whole concept that speed somehow correlates with what we want to do as drivers is completely erroneous. I'm not in this to read some number off a dashboard, I drive cars and ride bikes to develop new skills, then practice them. I drive to participate in a landscape and, occasionally, to scare myself.
The best driver's car I've ever owned was a BMW that weighed 2,813 Lbs and made 167 HP. The Scionotabaru weighs 2,689 Lbs and makes 197 HP. That's plenty for me. That I'll be able to drive it without playing into the ideas that our midwestern and southern readers probably have about me and my skinny jeans and that I'll be able to carry luggage and occasionally some buddies in the back seats just makes it that much better.
To put those numbers in perspective, a current BMW M3 weighs 3,704 Lbs. Over 1,000 more than the Subionta. Where's the fun in that?
That the GT 86/86/FR-S/BRZ was able to get down to such a svelte weight without the use of exotic materials is indicative of its appeal. It doesn't need a carbon fiber roof or magnesium wheels or drillium pedals in order to perform. Which means you'll be able to make it perform for just $24,000. That's less than a VW Golf TDI. You can afford this car. You can afford to crash this car and you can afford to repair it. That means you can afford to really, really drive it. Hard. You can afford to modify it. You'll probably be able to do the maintenance yourself, in your driveway.
When I walked into that FR-S unveil I saw a car that was small, a car that was practical, a car that was unassuming, a car that was RWD, has a manual transmission, a light weight and perfect weight distribution. I saw a car that I wanted, badly. For the first time in a long time.
I'm planning on buying a BRZ. How about you?
What back tracking? I said earlier the gains would not be the same as with a turbocharged motor.
Post #138 in case you missed it.
Hell, I'm sure a self-declared automotive genius/racing extraordinaire such as yourself would recognize that a small displacement NA motor will not show the same gains associated with forced induction motors like the Evo and STI that show big games for some minor mods, like exhaust work and tuning. However, your main contention was that NA mods will, by implication, be pointless.
From post #125.
However, there is no evidence to back this up. The car has not made its way into the hands of tuners yet. We have no idea how it's tuned, we have no idea what kind of cams it runs, the efficiency of the exhaust system, etc. There are many unknowns. To speculate, and declare certainly about that speculation, at this point, would be hasty and serves no purpose.
That being said, feel free to enlighten us all some more with your vast knowledge and seemingly endless skill. Maybe a racing team will read your posts, realize you're the key they've been missing and hire you so you can apply all your wisdom into building cars and winning races. It's clear you've got what it takes.
Post #138 in case you missed it.
Hell, I'm sure a self-declared automotive genius/racing extraordinaire such as yourself would recognize that a small displacement NA motor will not show the same gains associated with forced induction motors like the Evo and STI that show big games for some minor mods, like exhaust work and tuning. However, your main contention was that NA mods will, by implication, be pointless.
From post #125.
However, there is no evidence to back this up. The car has not made its way into the hands of tuners yet. We have no idea how it's tuned, we have no idea what kind of cams it runs, the efficiency of the exhaust system, etc. There are many unknowns. To speculate, and declare certainly about that speculation, at this point, would be hasty and serves no purpose.
That being said, feel free to enlighten us all some more with your vast knowledge and seemingly endless skill. Maybe a racing team will read your posts, realize you're the key they've been missing and hire you so you can apply all your wisdom into building cars and winning races. It's clear you've got what it takes.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: Santa Cruz, California
Jalopnik has some great comments on this car's intent and its power level.
http://jalopnik.com/5866465/yes-toyo...n-save-driving
http://jalopnik.com/5866465/yes-toyo...n-save-driving