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The Loft / EvoM Car Talk CornerThe landing pad for automotive discussions, news, articles, and opinions. A place for the community to kick back and chat.
We had an RS at AutoX today. It sounded a lot better than in videos. The driver was a Novice; first AX and first time in the car. Still ran a decent time, though. Ah.. electronics LOL. I'm curious of what a good driver could have done.
The car looked very composed. It seemed to be going slow, though it wasn't. If I only I could have driven it.... LOL.
lol, you sound jealous...
if a driver sucks no amount of electronics is gonna give him a decent time
if a driver sucks no amount of electronics is gonna give him a decent time
No, I don't. Also, I didn't say he sucked. I said he's never autocrossed or driven his car anywhere other than around town.
I've seen the ST do some amazing stuff during the AX school we had in Jan. It made a sub-par driver faster, period. I can only imagine how AWD must help.
So what's everyones take on this car vs the evo in terms of the fuel delivery systems?
I'm looking at getting an evo x due to the fact that it is still a standard port fuel delivery system (fuel injected through the intake runners over the intake valves)
With the way that modern PCV systems are on the ecoboost motors and the combination of direct injection, it looks like this motor is probably looking at carbon build up issues.
I guess the question i'm looking at discussing is, is the performance/efficiency benefits of direct injection on the RS's motor worth the maintenance and performance short comings of the system?
DI Pro's from my research and understanding
Better efficiency (leaner burn is possible due to fuel injection later in the combustion cycle)
Better performance stock with less knock due to previously mentioned ability for DI to inject fuel later in the cycle
DI Con's
Carbon build up ($300-500+ for carbon cleaning depending on if you DIY, or have a shop do it for you)
High Pressure Fuel pump limitations (there doesn't appear to be any upgrades available for most manufacturer's HPFP's aside from VW I believe reading somewhere and BMW) but they are extremely expensive.
Maintenance/replacement part costs (HPFP - $1000+ depending, Injectors - $2-300+ ea, High pressure lines, etc
What is everyone elses thoughts on this?
I am extremely hesitant to get onboard with owning a focus RS long term, or any other DI motor due to this. I used to have a BMW 135i with an N54 motor and carbon buildup would need to be taken care of probably once every year at minimum, preferably more, otherwise serious power losses would occur, as well as rough idle issues.
So what's everyones take on this car vs the evo in terms of the fuel delivery systems?
I'm looking at getting an evo x due to the fact that it is still a standard port fuel delivery system (fuel injected through the intake runners over the intake valves)
With the way that modern PCV systems are on the ecoboost motors and the combination of direct injection, it looks like this motor is probably looking at carbon build up issues.
I guess the question i'm looking at discussing is, is the performance/efficiency benefits of direct injection on the RS's motor worth the maintenance and performance short comings of the system?
DI Pro's from my research and understanding
Better efficiency (leaner burn is possible due to fuel injection later in the combustion cycle)
Better performance stock with less knock due to previously mentioned ability for DI to inject fuel later in the cycle
DI Con's
Carbon build up ($300-500+ for carbon cleaning depending on if you DIY, or have a shop do it for you)
High Pressure Fuel pump limitations (there doesn't appear to be any upgrades available for most manufacturer's HPFP's aside from VW I believe reading somewhere and BMW) but they are extremely expensive.
Maintenance/replacement part costs (HPFP - $1000+ depending, Injectors - $2-300+ ea, High pressure lines, etc
What is everyone elses thoughts on this?
I am extremely hesitant to get onboard with owning a focus RS long term, or any other DI motor due to this. I used to have a BMW 135i with an N54 motor and carbon buildup would need to be taken care of probably once every year at minimum, preferably more, otherwise serious power losses would occur, as well as rough idle issues.
I express the same concern as you regarding GDI motors. I know the problem is recognized across the board and will require a solution in the future to design and eventually fix. Currently it seems things like earlier oil change intervals along with PCV maintenance / interval replacement @ 30K, also with the use of good detergent fuels, ex: Chevron with Techron are the best preventative measures.
Right now I would do like Razor and just lease these buggers until the appropriate solution comes out. Most build up problems are appearing around 70K to 80K. Of course your mileage may vary.........
I guess that is quick for a cute little go-kart track.
Lol, I came from riding dirt bikes and I have an off-road car. Keeping a 3500lb vehicle on course going 90mph through 2ft deep whoops takes a decent amount of work. I've been riding with guys when they spun out, and I'm already yelling at them to ease up on steering or to counter steer while they're still fully committed....Then the car spins...lol. Not saying I'm a badass, but I do have pretty good car control. The two "moments" I had at SMMR, I had corner workers come up to me and commend the two saves lol. Said they've seen a lot of guys do exactly what I did in those two corners, except they wadded the car up while I was able to gather it up and drive through it.
Originally Posted by kaj
I hope so, because then I can feel better about my lap times LOL.
What're your times there? I have only been there one time which is the time I did that lap..
What're your times there? I have only been there one time which is the time I did that lap..
I did a 1:25.921 during a warm up/semi-hot lap. I then backed off to let the Navarz GTR pass by, went wide on the sweeper and floored it to carry as much speed, through turn one, as possible for my actual hot lap. Great run onto the straight... clear track ahead....That's when my turbo go boom. I never got to go all out. I have a score to settle with that place. NEMESIS!!
On the bright side, I got home super early LOL.
No, I don't. Also, I didn't say he sucked. I said he's never autocrossed or driven his car anywhere other than around town.
I've seen the ST do some amazing stuff during the AX school we had in Jan. It made a sub-par driver faster, period. I can only imagine how AWD must help.
Haha, I'm all sorts of misunderstood with that post...
The jealous part was sarcasm. The other part, I wasn't implying that you said he sucked, just saying that a slow driver is slow in any car. My favorite is when an experienced autox'r convinces his wife to come out with him and you see a car that's usually ripping it up putting around so slow the car behind catches up.
That being said, of course the car will make a difference how fast someone is, just saying to get a decent time in any car you need to be a decent driver in the first place
Haha, I'm all sorts of misunderstood with that post...
The jealous part was sarcasm. The other part, I wasn't implying that you said he sucked, just saying that a slow driver is slow in any car. My favorite is when an experienced autox'r convinces his wife to come out with him and you see a car that's usually ripping it up putting around so slow the car behind catches up.
That being said, of course the car will make a difference how fast someone is, just saying to get a decent time in any car you need to be a decent driver in the first place
I hear ya. I kinda took it as such, but my post did come across like was all serious n stuff. Sorry about that. All I know is I've seen to Focuses.. Foci...(?) do really well at our AX events with noob drivers. The guy in the ST could just floor it in a sweeper and the car would rotate around and come out really fast. Weird for a FWD car LOL.
I was far away from the guy in the RS, so I can't tell how he was driving. It's possible that both guys just had some natural talent (I'm not trying to take anything away from them). The guy in the RS got 9th fastest out of 50 people and I think I heard him say he had never done this before. I could have heard wrong or maybe he was sandbagging LOL. Because top 10 at our events is pretty danged decent.
And again: the car sounded really good. LOL. I was kinda not too sure after hearing the videos, but in person was great. I also like the pops and burbles.
I hear ya. I kinda took it as such, but my post did come across like was all serious n stuff. Sorry about that. All I know is I've seen to Focuses.. Foci...(?) do really well at our AX events with noob drivers. The guy in the ST could just floor it in a sweeper and the car would rotate around and come out really fast. Weird for a FWD car LOL.
I was far away from the guy in the RS, so I can't tell how he was driving. It's possible that both guys just had some natural talent (I'm not trying to take anything away from them). The guy in the RS got 9th fastest out of 50 people and I think I heard him say he had never done this before. I could have heard wrong or maybe he was sandbagging LOL. Because top 10 at our events is pretty danged decent.
And again: the car sounded really good. LOL. I was kinda not too sure after hearing the videos, but in person was great. I also like the pops and burbles.
Gentlemen. Not here to start a full-on debate as I do not have the time/energy (plus, Im out numbered =)
Just not sure why there is so much interest in this model
When I first read about it, sure the specs & no.s look interesting but when I dug a bit deeper (peeking under the skirt) I really questioned why I was interested
The spindly rear drive line & all the stamped steel suspension parts. The engine bay decor & all the electronic wizardry involved
