Focus RS
Ugh 1x1 method I never took you as a hack! Cmon man step up your game!
It was just something to consider based on my personal experience...
This is the new unofficial official OT thread on evom so can you not talk about that domestic POS please!? Thanks...
Oh and evos rule CT9A fo lyfe!
It was just something to consider based on my personal experience...
This is the new unofficial official OT thread on evom so can you not talk about that domestic POS please!? Thanks...
Oh and evos rule CT9A fo lyfe!
man oh man.. I just read through all of vorshlag's posts and the comments on the FoRS forums... I don't think I'm the only one that agrees with vorshlag here am I? all street cars have issues brought on the track, but the FoRS has some particularly annoying ones. I gotta imagine Ford is going to be beef up some of the issues with the RDU for future model years though. The strut tower design is a bit of a mystery, why they put that cup in there that makes camber plates difficult to run. I think a lot of these FoRS posters are going to be changing their tunes once they start really modifying their cars...
best post:
best post:
I read the article and saw the guys video. He isn't going to win any personality contests and doesn't appear to be the type to sugar coat his message. But aside from confusion of the RDU mentioned in posts in this tread, the article does not appear inaccurate to me at all. Data Points from the article
1. Weight.. Agreed it's fat and front heavy. I appreciated them taking the time to get the corner weights.
2. Wheels and tires.. To narrow, 235's on 19's Agreed,would have liked at least a 245 from the factory.
3. Brakes.. Properly sized.. Agreed, I think the brakes are a high point in the cars ability to get around the track.
4. Brake Weight.. 23.16lbs for the front rotors. Again I appreciate them sharing this information.
5. 19" Wheels are a fashion statement vs. a performance necessity... Agreed but the 19's look great and aftermarket wheels can negate the weight savings of a 17 or 18" wheel.
6. Brake cooling... Scoop and flap vs ducting, I've tracked my car and "think" if you are overheating the brakes with stock like power levels, you may need to change techniques.
7. Rear Brake comments.. Informational, I liked the "rental car fleet" reference though. I'm sure it was inserted as an attention grabber for the fan boys.
8. Wheel & Tire Weight.. Informational, again thanks for sharing.
9. Front strut towers/tower brace/Strut: Informational, and I understand and agree with the frustration that comes through in the article. When things are done in such a way from the factory that it makes a typical aftermarket solution more difficult you just have to say WTF was the Ford Engineering dept thinking? Obviously not about adjustable camber or accessibility.
9b. Rear suspension: I have to agree that I expected to see more effort put into the suspension. The zero use of aluminum from a Ford leaves me speechless..lol perhaps all the F150's needed it.
10. On track opinions:
Understeer: I agree totally. While it's a fast and fun car around the track it doesn't feel as balanced as some other AWD cars I've owned or driven.
Brake Dive: Who would disagree with this? Yep, it happens to a point that the a$$ end feels a little squirrel when you jump on the brakes hard at high speed.
Body Roll: Again I'm not sure anyone would disagree that this isn't an area for improvement
Oil Temps: Agreed it needs some help in this area for track usage
Tires: Agreed 3-5 hard laps depending on the track and the tires add to the understeer substantially
Fun to drive: I think so, while these guys are getting hammered for not including enough flowering opinions of the car I'm in the other camp. I appreciate their points and point of view. While I don't agree with everything expressed in the article, the facts and some of the opinions offered are on the money. I'd purchase from these guys and appreciate the effort that went into obtaining and sharing this information. From a social science position it's interesting and disappointing to see the shoot the messenger mentality of an internet mob in action. Some of you guys will buy parts from someone with out manufacturing facilities or engineering back ground. Tunes from individuals without a shop or dyno, yet when a shop that actually makes stuff provides a constructively critical review and tear down some of you guys start throwing rocks.
1. Weight.. Agreed it's fat and front heavy. I appreciated them taking the time to get the corner weights.
2. Wheels and tires.. To narrow, 235's on 19's Agreed,would have liked at least a 245 from the factory.
3. Brakes.. Properly sized.. Agreed, I think the brakes are a high point in the cars ability to get around the track.
4. Brake Weight.. 23.16lbs for the front rotors. Again I appreciate them sharing this information.
5. 19" Wheels are a fashion statement vs. a performance necessity... Agreed but the 19's look great and aftermarket wheels can negate the weight savings of a 17 or 18" wheel.
6. Brake cooling... Scoop and flap vs ducting, I've tracked my car and "think" if you are overheating the brakes with stock like power levels, you may need to change techniques.
7. Rear Brake comments.. Informational, I liked the "rental car fleet" reference though. I'm sure it was inserted as an attention grabber for the fan boys.
8. Wheel & Tire Weight.. Informational, again thanks for sharing.
9. Front strut towers/tower brace/Strut: Informational, and I understand and agree with the frustration that comes through in the article. When things are done in such a way from the factory that it makes a typical aftermarket solution more difficult you just have to say WTF was the Ford Engineering dept thinking? Obviously not about adjustable camber or accessibility.
9b. Rear suspension: I have to agree that I expected to see more effort put into the suspension. The zero use of aluminum from a Ford leaves me speechless..lol perhaps all the F150's needed it.
10. On track opinions:
Understeer: I agree totally. While it's a fast and fun car around the track it doesn't feel as balanced as some other AWD cars I've owned or driven.
Brake Dive: Who would disagree with this? Yep, it happens to a point that the a$$ end feels a little squirrel when you jump on the brakes hard at high speed.
Body Roll: Again I'm not sure anyone would disagree that this isn't an area for improvement
Oil Temps: Agreed it needs some help in this area for track usage
Tires: Agreed 3-5 hard laps depending on the track and the tires add to the understeer substantially
Fun to drive: I think so, while these guys are getting hammered for not including enough flowering opinions of the car I'm in the other camp. I appreciate their points and point of view. While I don't agree with everything expressed in the article, the facts and some of the opinions offered are on the money. I'd purchase from these guys and appreciate the effort that went into obtaining and sharing this information. From a social science position it's interesting and disappointing to see the shoot the messenger mentality of an internet mob in action. Some of you guys will buy parts from someone with out manufacturing facilities or engineering back ground. Tunes from individuals without a shop or dyno, yet when a shop that actually makes stuff provides a constructively critical review and tear down some of you guys start throwing rocks.
Ugh 1x1 method I never took you as a hack! Cmon man step up your game!
It was just something to consider based on my personal experience...
This is the new unofficial official OT thread on evom so can you not talk about that domestic POS please!? Thanks...
Oh and evos rule CT9A fo lyfe!
It was just something to consider based on my personal experience...
This is the new unofficial official OT thread on evom so can you not talk about that domestic POS please!? Thanks...
Oh and evos rule CT9A fo lyfe!
man oh man.. I just read through all of vorshlag's posts and the comments on the FoRS forums... I don't think I'm the only one that agrees with vorshlag here am I? all street cars have issues brought on the track, but the FoRS has some particularly annoying ones. I gotta imagine Ford is going to be beef up some of the issues with the RDU for future model years though. The strut tower design is a bit of a mystery, why they put that cup in there that makes camber plates difficult to run. I think a lot of these FoRS posters are going to be changing their tunes once they start really modifying their cars...
best post:
best post:
The only part of the tower design that's weird for me is that the studs aren't on the top hat but bolted in from above... What possible reason is there to do that?
Glad to see someone has their head on straight on the FoRS forums (about the post you quoted)
Actually pretty sure AMS used to do it 1x1 all the time. I think if the car is completely cooled off and you do it in the proper order you'll be fine. My logic was the if it aint broke dont fix it. Once it starts lifting Ill need to pull the head anyway so wait until it does that.
Either way I only mentioned that I was curious where you coolant was going if it was disappearing or being pushed out. Keep an eye on it and if it continues to do it maybe look into upgrading those studs
There is something about the way Mitsubishi's machines screws them in all at once that I didn't want to mess with . No one is going to be able to duplicate that.
I also like to think they sealed the magic in. lol
I left my stock Headstuds in and ran pretty hard(500-600whp) without any issues. Tune was where it needed to be and proper fuel was run. The guys that run all the boost on pump gas with that "last" degree are the ones that get problems IMO. Always have to keep cylinder pressure in mind. Now, I could possibly see the stock studs breaking once you try and remove them since they've been in there for so long and/or if they were pushed to the limit.
OEMs never car about making a car easy to modify. Making aftermarket camber plates easy or difficult was never a thought in their mind when designing the strut tops or clearance. Any car that's "easy to modify" in terms of clearance or whatever is purely coincidental... Whatever their reason was for that cup, I guarantee it had nothing to do with making it difficult for the aftermarket.
The only part of the tower design that's weird for me is that the studs aren't on the top hat but bolted in from above... What possible reason is there to do that?
Glad to see someone has their head on straight on the FoRS forums (about the post you quoted)
The only part of the tower design that's weird for me is that the studs aren't on the top hat but bolted in from above... What possible reason is there to do that?
Glad to see someone has their head on straight on the FoRS forums (about the post you quoted)
As for bolting in the struts... does anyone know why some Euro companies bolt wheels on instead of using studs? It's annoying, but I assume there is a reason, from an engineering standpoint.
my favorite part of that post sums up my feelings on a lot of this thread and on other forums LOL:
it's interesting and disappointing to see the shoot the messenger mentality of an internet mob in action. Some of you guys will buy parts from someone with out manufacturing facilities or engineering back ground. Tunes from individuals without a shop or dyno, yet when a shop that actually makes stuff provides a constructively critical review and tear down some of you guys start throwing rocks.
I agree with leaving it stock. The ONLY reason i have studs is because I had to rebuild the engine and I like studs, in case I had to pull it apart enough, etc. Other than that, I never pushed the OEM bolts past 25psi, but I never had any signs of anything going wrong. And that was with a lot of mileage.
FWIW: I'm a fan of OEM parts, though. I don't swap them out unless absolutely necessary.
as far as the wheel thing, now having taken off and put wheels back on my BMW, its actually not nearly as annoying as I thought it be, I'd even venture to say its easier than with studs. you still have the hubcentric bore to put the wheels on, and then you rotate the wheel till it matches up with a hole...
its also easier to add wheel spacers. you don't need to get longer studs and replace them (huge PITA in some cars), you just get longer bolts. that being said the wheel spacers I bought for my BMW nearly a year ago now are still sitting in my garage
The reason for lug bolts instead of studs and lug nuts is simple, 1/2 as many parts. For a 5 lug wheel, you need 5 bolts, instead of 5 studs and 5 nuts for a total of 10 parts. It's a cost saving measure.
I know it Capt. Obvious info, but the guy I quoted seamed to be under the impression that Ford did that to spite the aftermarket...
as far as the wheel thing, now having taken off and put wheels back on my BMW, its actually not nearly as annoying as I thought it be, I'd even venture to say its easier than with studs. you still have the hubcentric bore to put the wheels on, and then you rotate the wheel till it matches up with a hole...
its also easier to add wheel spacers. you don't need to get longer studs and replace them (huge PITA in some cars), you just get longer bolts. that being said the wheel spacers I bought for my BMW nearly a year ago now are still sitting in my garage
as far as the wheel thing, now having taken off and put wheels back on my BMW, its actually not nearly as annoying as I thought it be, I'd even venture to say its easier than with studs. you still have the hubcentric bore to put the wheels on, and then you rotate the wheel till it matches up with a hole...
its also easier to add wheel spacers. you don't need to get longer studs and replace them (huge PITA in some cars), you just get longer bolts. that being said the wheel spacers I bought for my BMW nearly a year ago now are still sitting in my garage
I agree bolts are easier to add spacers and spinning the wheel lines up the bolts just fine, but that doesn't help explain why Ford would do that on a top hat.
That is the only reason I could see, I guess. It's quicker, easier, and cheaper to thread the top hats and bolt them in. But yuck LOL
Aren't studs a stronger connection? I remember something about this argument for why head studs vs head bolts...something about with a stud you bolt it in and then as you tighten the nut it squeezes everything together vs wiht a bolt all the stress is on the threads that engage the bolt? I dont remember exactly how its stated but I think if I had a bimmer one of my first mods would be some ARP wheel studs.