their classes are out of whack. A race car with a cat basically qualifies for "street" class. When most of the Street class is running as fast, or faster than the Limited class, the rules may need to be fixed LOL.

2'00" isn't bad, especially for a car that is relatively new with little development. I do not know the extent of the car's mods, though...so....

I have to agree. You can't judge the merit of a car based on what you could do to ten year old car for the same amount of $$$. That's for the "what would you but if you had $35,000?" Thread.

 

Comparing BRAND new cars is quite fair, IMO. If I start with nothing, what
can I get right now for x$. Of course you kiss warantee of EVO goodbye with the mods,
but most with an RS will do the same thing with just a tune.

As yes, you can get a 80's Malibu in the 10's with a JY 5.3 and homemade turbo for $5K, so that comparison never ends. If we are not going to compare overall price on the new cars, that means I can put the RS up against any car, no matter the cost, and it's fair??

 

M3/M4 is 3800lb by the spec
Perhaps more in real world

This is GTR weight
I am positive Evo with Ohlins and HKS7460 on pump is faster on back road then dyno-tuned GTR: driven/tested by capable sane driver.

I drive my Evo (HKS7460 on pump)with friends who are NASA winning drivers in their 991 & 997.2 GT3 RS -
991 is grippier and faster, by little, 997.2 RS is evenly matched - as a matter of fact my friend is seemingly faster in my Evo than his RS.

If M3/M4 are faster in real world California backroads, at Laguna, Thunderhill, and Sonoma, then GTR and 997.2 RS....

Than you are correct.
I know the answer to that- we're not talking 1/4 Mile, we're talking 8/10th backroad and decent amateur on equal tires (NT01 on backroads and C71 Hankooks on track).

Furthermore
As 6x Miata turbo past/present owner of premium setup Miatas(not rats,but real nice Carbon/FCM/FM/Trackspeed/etc premium upgrades) and having drive looked and examined V8 Miata...
I will say like this:

Top V8 LSX Miata race car on 275/35x15 Hoosiers can do 1.34-1.35 at Laguna.

Dual Purpose E9 2.3 FP Red with Stoptech front brakes on 18x10 w/275/35x18 NT01 fullweight driven from LA to Laguna Does flat 1.34!

And if it had power to weight of Miata and big wing like Miata it would do 1.33.

Time Attack setup evo don't know- much faster...


Focus RS did 2:00
ND Miata by SB Garage Stock power on BC coilovers on Michelin Super sport (300UTG) 225s did 2:04

If ND Miata had same rubber it would do 2:02 probably, and if it had Vorshlang like-investment into suspension it would match RS lap time and do it for 24hrs, not until rear diff is disengaged.

 

I was comparing unlimited rwd to unlimited fwd... So the poor classing doesn't really apply

 

What I am saying is
You can put EFR7670 and Ohlins on RS and what EFR wheel tire package, big brakes and cooling upgrade as required, and this bolt on Evo will be based I saw the higher performing car, reliably.

Did anybody see an upgraded RS Specced line that?

 

I was just making conversation by expanding on your comment about how weird the results can be.

 

What kinda investment has Vorshlag put into the RS?

 

Last I've seen was bilstein PSS9/10, camber plates, Cobb reflash, oil cooler. I also saw a pic of it with 275 RE71R's on wider wheels but I don't know if it had that at SLB

 

I was at Buttonwillow and spoke to the driver.
KevinD is his next door neighbor and they cooperate a lot on builds.

I'll ask him what is done to the car: its a dual purpose car that is constantly modded, so not the same spec as Vorshlang developed - > its more advanced now.

A race-Miata normally aspirated NA did 2:00 flat...Moti Almagor.
Its probably a 150-160whp NA Miata motor in a very light Miata NA body (1900Lb is my estimate) with nice big wing on the back.

 

This thread is going full retard again.

 

I still say 2'00".xxx is a decent lap time, Especially for a newer car. Just because it has aftermarket parts doesn't mean they work well together. I'm sure it's still WELL into R&D.
I can't say much about a Miata. It has about 0 to do with an RS.

 

I have zero desire to argue - but would like to point out that:

less than flattering or elevating, or highlighting potential flaws in a report when contrasted to many other reports,

and

contrasting real-world experience of driving performance cars- especially Evo - which speaks positively for how challenging is to improve upon Lancer Evo 5-9 & X chassis/powertrain capabilities

Should not be commented crudely as in your comment.
If we are indeed nice civil and respectful forum participants.


I am far too old to take to heart or put any weight into comments made by most people, unless those very close to my own heart(My family).
But really...
why negativity pointing to individual's posts?




The way to evaluate something is thru comparison. Including a meter stick!
We are most often comparing Evo to other options, and evaluating RS as next-step.

My friend in GrN Evo 9 just won overall in a rally 2 weeks ago( tarmac) beating all R5 cars- including Fiesta R5 and anything else.
GrN Evo 9 is so close to stock...its less modified than most of our mild street cars..only highlight is big brakes and good coilovers.

R5 is purpose built prototype, based on production chassis.

There is no way in hell an RS with $20K+ of add-ons will beat an R5 Fiesta.
But near-stock Evo 9 does!

And Evo 9 GrN beats R-GT Porsche Cup Cars:
both are restricted, but R-GT restrictor is 36mm vs 33 or 34mm for Evo...it virtually comes down to pure handling/braking, power is somewhat comparable.

These types of results remove "amateurs unequal ability" and "vastly different modifications" as these cars are all built to FIA rules, and in the case of specific classes:
Group N is lowest
R4 is next step up
R5 is next step up again
R-GT is meant to enable real road-based sports/racing cars like Porsche Cup Cars and more to compete with R4 and R5 cars, and be faster than GrN



I think we should be quiet happy that our Evos are still currently competitive chassis.

 

In case you only read the initial Vorschlag Focus RS post, read the rest where they go into some What-if and hypothetical ruminations:

https://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58381

There was this section with a Evo X v. Focus RS comparo (bad cut & paste - see the read instead):

THE "FAIR" FOCUS RS TO EVO X COMPARISON


Bone stock 2008 Mitsubishi EVO X MR - with sticker power!

I want to get back to the EVO X for a minute - a car I compared the Focus RS to in my first two posts in this thread. This was a car that was very similar to the Focus RS in many ways, which we worked with over 2 years and made much better, and won a lot of autocross and time trial events in - a 2008 EVO X MR. It also had a few notable differences, but overall they were more similar than not.


Left: Inverted monotube Bilsteins on the MR were better, but springs were too soft. Right: Factory 18x8.5" and 245mm tire = 46.8 pounds

The EVO X was a $35,000, relatively heavy 4 door AWD car with a front weight bias - all similar to the RS. It has a turbo and intercooled 2.0L engine, beefy Brembo brakes (with 2-piece rotors), factory launch control (really a 2 step rev limiter, just like the RS), and rode on relatively soft stock suspension. The MR came with a slightly better shocks (inverted Bilstein struts, which have less strut deflection when loaded than a twin tube strut), the dual sequential transaxle (so nice, when it worked), and a more sophisticated rear suspension. It had a 245mm tire on a 18x8.5" wheel, so a very similar stock tire-to-weight ratio to the RS. It made 300 hp in stock form but with exhaust changes and a tune we got it to over 380 whp, which some are already able to get to in a modified RS.



I went back and read our EVO X development thread and I noted that we wrote that it suffered from similar "stock suspension" challenges, which are visible in the track and autocross images shown when raced it on the stock suspension, after initially upgrading to a slightly more competitive 245mm Dunlop tire on the stock 18x8.5" wheels. The car had a TON of body roll, front camber loss, and brake dive in this "stock suspension" autocross I raced it in, shown above. About the same as the Focus has, in all fairness.



In stock form it was pretty terrible, so maybe I was too harsh on the RS? If so, here is my apology to Ford and the RS' fans... the EVO X was equally as crappy as the RS. It just seemed like the RS had so much positive press and hype you'd think it was a space ship - but the EVO X was treated much the same way by car mags and forum fan boys alike.



We didn't keep the EVO X on the stock suspension very long, and after one autocross and one NASA Time Trial it got coilovers and camber plates. I was just remembering how much better it was the majority of the time we used this car over 2 seasons - with properly upgraded suspension.


Left: Enkei 18x10.5" wheel and 275/35/18 Yokohama was 48.5 pounds. Right: This big tire and wheel lowered lap times on the EVO!

The first things we did were add proper monotube coilover dampers, upped the spring rate, and lots more negative camber to the front end - which is the same order of mods we have planned for the RS. We then upgraded the wheels to wider 18x10.5" wide Enkeis with 275mm wide good street tires (Yokohama Advan AD07). Again, similar in tire width (275) and wheel width (9.5" or 10") we have planned for the RS. I don't think the RS can fit as much wheel as the EVO X, but we'll soon see after the coilovers are installed.


With monotube coilovers, more spring rate, swaybars, camber plates, and wider wheels/tires - this EVO X cornered flatter and was much faster

Like we have planned on the RS, we focused our changes on the EVO X on the same basic suspension upgrades - minimize body roll, reduce suspension bushing deflection, add negative camber, improve dampers and up the spring rates dramatically. Then we added wheel and tire width to improve mechanical grip.



This EVO X MR also had a major flaw on track - we had to quickly make some cooling upgrades the MR's transmission cooler. The Getrag DSG semi-automatic trans ran hot on track (after 10-12 minutes it would overtemp the trans and go into limp mode) until we opened up the front cooling duct and added a fan. Like the oddly placed intercooler decal covering 1/4 of the front heat exchanger on the RS, the MR had a large transmission fluid cooler that was 1/2 covered up by a foglight. We removed the fog light, meshed the now larger openings (to keep rocks/bugs/klag from packing up the heat exchanger), and then added a 5" electric cooling fan to use in the pits between sessions to cool this fluid. Cured the over-temp issue and allowed the EVO to run complete 20 minute track sessions without fail.



So looking back on it, the EVO X MR we raced for 2 years was far from perfect in stock form. With some work, a lot of testing, some upgraded components, and the help of others we were able to make it more reliable and much faster. Hopefully we can do the same with the RS. COBB did the tuning on our shop EVO X and they have already tuned Todd's Focus RS as well. Evolution Dynamics also has some tricks up their sleeve, as do other partner shops that are working on this car. It looks like we might just be able to cure what ails the RS. Stay tuned!

 

I have no idea what this even means.

My comment was aimed at the fact that, once again, people are trying to compare a modified car to a bone stock car as "proof" that the modified car is better. It's a retarded comparison. Like I said, by that **** logic, a 1.6 L Miata is superior to an Evo because you can dump $20,000 into the Miata and it'll be cheaper and outperform the Evo.

 

Focus RS power upgrades, for fun reading.


My Shop Assist Focus RS Time Attack project car that ran 2.00 at Buttonwillow Nov 11th 2016:
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/53-focu...s-build-3.html

AMS Power Package 410bhp, tested by Automobile Mag:
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/fo...e-tune-410-hp/

Hennessey package:
http://hennesseyperformance.com/vehicles/ford/focus-rs/
Due to controversy with Hennessy poor business practices, more info in this thread:
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/16-focu...-focus-rs.html

Full Blown turbo upgrade thread
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/16-focu...452ft-lbs.html


RDU unit limit reached, interesting drag-racing data and possible future solution in works:http://www.focusrs.org/forum/98-tune...119-94mph.html

Track thread on RS Forum:
NOTE
The specific page I am pasting, in post 117, lists an experience of AWD Off instance - how long it took on tight track when driven by experienced NASA driver: 5.5-8 minutes range, than recovery in 4-5 minutes if you back off to 50% (gentle drive)
Link:
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/33-focu...tml#post400162

Competent and experienced amateur tracking his Focus RS, relating experience with RDU unit at track and how it really corners:

http://www.focusrs.org/forum/9-focus...laws-real.html