Thanks. Some of that I had already read, but had not seen that they had one in the 11's already. Relatively minimal mods (maybe $1500ish and tires??)........

All moot really for me. Even if I sold my 8 for 20 (or low 20's), it would take another 20 grand plus to get me into an RS.

20 grand can bring a lot of fun spread over the rest of my fleet, so most likely I will be sticking with what I have.

 

The drag thread is very interesting as it discusses how the RDU has survival routines that preventing lunching a multi-thousand dollar part.

This thread (somewhat accurate) is in the spirit of comparisons:
http://www.focusrs.org/forum/10-focu...sti-vs-rs.html

 

Awesome article Moparfan.

I'd like to add that Evo 9 would still outperform an X MR in similar situation:
its lighter (MR trans is noticeably heavier than GSR 5 speed), has virtually same suspension, and same power- therefore minimal mods as in the article car would do enough to even more improve its track and road performance.

I think this is a very nice real world comparison: comparing new car with generous benefit of the trend toward wider, stiffer, stickier, more powerful, improved geometry,
to something 8 or more years in production and now out of production, designed/executed to than aging standards
requires that we allow for some minor adjustments.

Cars tend to get wider tires, stickier compounds, stiffer chassis, more advanced suspension design and far improved damping from factory.
The newer engines tend to be more powerful and produce more torque under the curve thru variable intake and exhaust timing, better cam design, direct injection, and much more...

Focus RS has truly state of the art powertrain- the parts that Ford choose to build-up.
Rear diff was an engineering choice, not an accident....

So this is precisely, this comparison, that I had in mind as fair comparison.

And since Hot Hatch, Evo, STi, even M3/M4, are enthusiast cars meant to be modified- by our own choice, than why not compare some moderate spec of optimized models of each kind, that would be a normal reasoning for say an Evo or STi owner who has developed his/her car over time and is ready to try something new.
Such person would like to know..if the platform will prove to be designed with certain limitations as X has been shown to have
(engine is not as stout as E8/9, MR transmission is not enthusiast's choice, AYC diff is great up to "certain power level" but beyond Evo 9 is default upgrade, chassis is heavier and there is no hiding that fact, aside from heavier).

Evo 9 has no real weaknesses, and its powertrain limitations are very high, i.e. there are stock block cars running 600whp, my own stock block runs 400whp true-Mustang-Dyno on original factory clutch..still...
and Evo 9 responds to mild tuning of chassis (engine and more) so willingly to be able to sweep presumably much more accomplished competition cars in FIA sanctioned racing.

Let's find someone who's coming up with RDU upgrade, to eliminate indisputable weak link.

 

This thread is about the Focus RS. It isn't the place for your fan club posts proclaiming that the Evo 9 has no weaknesses (lol).

 

Get out of here with a bolt on evo 9 being faster than a 997 GT3 at thunderhill. That is fan boi fantasy land talk.

a bone stock 997 GT3 does 1:58 at thunderhill with an amateur driver. I have never seen an a bolt on evo even get close to that in over ten years of driving that track.

And the Evo 9 has no weaknesses? Get out of here...

I see this thread has gone back to it's fantasy land bench racing

 

No ****ing kidding. This thread is a testament to just how bad fanboyism can get.

 

Try telling my Evo it has no weakness when I just got out-autocrossed by a dune buggy. And if anyone with a GT3 (of any year) wants to trade, I'm down.

 

http://www.trackhq.com/forums/f99/to...ap-times-2421/

2:00.412 (Marios Komvopoulos; Evo9; RunOff R6s; 316whp/3400lbs w/driver; Feb 12; Sheet))
http://www.ncracing.org/results/1202...s_Combined.pdf

2:00 in bolt-on Evo..full weight.

So if 997 GT3/RS is 1:58 this is not far off? Marios back at the time was not Randy Pobst caliber and this is NCRC event result (fun driving club, not sanctioned race-series SCCA/NASA)

Based on Rennlist discussions, lap-times, most good amateur 997 GT3 drivers get into low 2:xx, and to break below 2:00 is not child's play.

 

K? You're comparing a stock, showroom car to one with various mods and racing slicks. It's a stupid comparison that has no place in a thread about the Focus RS.

 

You and I both know Marios is not close to the norm.

Put R6's on the GT3 and see what happens

I do a 2:03 in my full weight with sunroof and leather evo 10, bolt ons, stock turbo, NT01's, ohlins and e75 at approx 340 whp amd we also both know I'm not the norm

 

I just spoke to Marios...
He did on Maxxis RC1 1.59 at Thill, on 91 octane..no aero..stockish car.
He is good driver but not competitor.
Marios never had any "proper tire" (Hoosier R7 or similar).
R6 were old and cycled out when he did 2:00.

To do 1.58 with 997 GT3 you do need Hoosier R7: my NASA winning friend on NT01 has hard time getting his 997.2 RS under 2:00 (and he knows the track)..and his GT3 RS is all setup by BRR in Los Gatos...It's Not Stock.

So 1.58 is a very aggressive laptime even for GT3 driven by amateur NASA racer.

For sure, being a student, Marios is not your GT3 driver with full race suit/equipment and having attended some race-schools and more.

He did 1:40 the only time he was at Laguna, and he forgot Sonoma laptimes.

His car is normal enthusiast car.

Cup Cars do 1:29-1.35 (SCCA Porsche Cup Cars) and I mentioned it before Dual Purpose E9 2.3 FP Red on Ohlins Road and Track, does 1.34 flat...total amateur having fun from SoCal.

Its irrelevant but - we all enjoyed the thoughtful comparison of RS with STi with mild updates and Evo X.

I'd love to see the Shop Assist RS compared to similarly moderately optimized Evo 9 and STI.

I think that the reason I once in a while continue to come back to this forum post and post things some find out-of-line...
Is that the same persons insist to somehow ignore the high water/oil temps and turning off AWD..things that made several notorious RS owners loose interest in them.

And these "shortcomings" if I may call them so for lack of better expression make further tuning/optimization challenging..more power= more heat, and more power = sooner AWD Off event..

And since the ECU is so incredibly advanced which makes it difficult, some thought impossible, to crack the AWD logic/algorithms to reprogram to be able to manage differently or replace rear diff and have it operate properly still in synch with the rest of powertrain as intended...

Because of that limitation, its hard to foresee Focus RS being a good choice for trackday car, or street-performance car...as its rather easy to drop into 11s with turbo upgrade but that leads to all the shortcomings coming up sooner.

I hope we finally are somewhat more aligned...
We're not haters..we are just less infatuated with RS to overlook the challenge ahead- that each and every a little more aggressive user/amateur competitor has brought up.


On the other hand..my next car is Fiesta RS Proto- 2door Fiesta with Evo X suspension and Evo 9 powertrain....and I grew up on Mk2 Escort RS2000...rest assured I have Ford RallySport flowing through my veins

 

Sorry I meant 991 GT3.

Here is my friend and ex evo owner doing a 1.58 in his after first getting it. . Everything stock minus pads. Stock mpsc tires. His best in his Evo was a 2.05


And a 2.00 in his GT4 with Re71r tires:

 

Nobody in their right mind cross shops a stock Porsche against a modified Lancer. They're two completely different cars. Yes, an Evo can be modified to be very fast, but it will always be a hopped up Lancer. That's fine, it has its own charm, but it's not the same as a luxury sports car.

 

991 GT3 is on new-level: you know its been made clear by many testers that 991 GT3 is so accomplished that you almost cannot reach that deep (drive that fast) to experience its greatness.

So I think 991 is- and I've mentioned it - faster car out of the box and there is no argument to that at all.

As far as GT3, Porsche, Evo...

Just like many Evo owners had or have Miata turbo...me included.
That is how there are numerous GT3/GT4 owners who have or had Evo.

And some of them frankly prefer the Evo...because Gt3 can be fragile.
Nobody likes to talk about $10-15K gearbox issue, or exploded clutch basket 2-3 times in a row...
Its another level and we are not going there.

Again, as far as ultimate capability- although Lancer Evo starts off as Lancer humble sedan, while GT3 starts off as C4 911 chassis:
FIA has seen that they meet, and compete, on equal footing in GrN and R-GT classes.
And Evo 9 comes ahead, in-spite of lower power to weight ratio and and starting off the road Lancer Evo while the GT3 is full on Cup Car.

Again disregard the image, look at the actual results, and you will see they are more alike the unlike- the 997 GT3 and Lancer Evo 9.

Anyways...


Speaking of GT4, I mentioned it...the stock one will run at best 1.38-1.39 at Laguna on really sticky road-legal tires. And can get into 1.36 on Hoosiers, when setup on "proper suspension" and brakes/rollbar etc.. Track Prepped.
That is soo soo close to what Marios was running(1:40 on Maxxis RC1 several years ago)..and tire advance alone since 5 years is at least 1 second...or more...

So its easy to see that 316whp 3400lb Evo 9 on say Ohlins R&T on some good tires can reach down into similar laptimes, driven by equally accomplished driver.

Its irrelevant arguing over GT3 and Evo,
its just happens we live in San Francisco Bay Area with so many of these Porsches around us who frequent the same tracks as us,
and although frankly Evo is a rare car even on track, there are few examples that we can pick on to compare capability to multitude of Porsches.

Maybe we should be looking for some accomplished modestly optimized RS Focuses that run on same tracks..unfortunately TA does not visit Thunderhill or Laguna, and rarely Sonoma, to evaluate say the Shop Assist RS and enthusiasts RS cars like Razorlab's Evo X is for example.

 

Just stop, please. This is genuinely painful. Comparing a Porsche GT3 to an Evo...