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Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?

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Old Aug 9, 2023 | 08:27 PM
  #5536  
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Originally Posted by ViciousLSD
you do it every oil change?
Depends how often you change your oil. Easy enough to crack the filter off and replace it and while your changing over grab a sample. much easier when your drysump and your filter is the high point though haha. wet sump would be a nightmare.
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Old Aug 9, 2023 | 08:59 PM
  #5537  
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no biggie. I have to get the sample from the filter i guess? oil-testing.com folks are about 4mi from me. will check their prices.
"under my hood" testing kits on amazon, kinda ok reviews. might be worth a shot
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Old Aug 10, 2023 | 07:39 AM
  #5538  
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From: PHL
Blackstone recommends a sample from the middle stream of an oil draining fwiw
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Old Aug 10, 2023 | 08:12 AM
  #5539  
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by Kevin.
Blackstone recommends a sample from the middle stream of an oil draining fwiw
i was wondering what those oil sampling pumps are for
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Old Aug 11, 2023 | 05:21 PM
  #5540  
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Originally Posted by ViciousLSD
Now the question is what would cause that. my oil pressure at idle is about 30-35psi and goes too 100+psi by 3.5krpm
I also have not run a full track session since the build. normally i pit after 4-5laps to cool the tires/check pressures
Did you adjust the oil pressure to 100psi @ 3500rpm, or was that how it came?
Typically I would have thought oil starvation would cause lots of damage to the mains bearings too.
Rod bearing damage can be oil related or tune related. Bad fuel, low fuel pressure etc.
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Old Aug 11, 2023 | 07:53 PM
  #5541  
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by RSMike
Did you adjust the oil pressure to 100psi @ 3500rpm, or was that how it came?
Typically I would have thought oil starvation would cause lots of damage to the mains bearings too.
Rod bearing damage can be oil related or tune related. Bad fuel, low fuel pressure etc.
it came like that. I tried to observe and planned to make adjustments but it seems to be in the right range so I didn't touch it
maybe its the low end torque (we abuse during autox)? maybe whatever material that came off my bad cams?
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Old Aug 11, 2023 | 08:21 PM
  #5542  
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Rod bearings can certainly be hurt if timing is too far advanced but usually all rod bearings will experience damage before any mains when it comes to oil starvation. When I spun #4 rod bearing in my evo years ago the rods showed increasingly worse wear leading up to #4 and none of the mains showed anything concerning. Edit: I went back and looked, my mains did show some signs of starvation the further they went but the rods were much more evident.

Poor fuel or leaning out will typically hurt a piston before a bearing.

If the bearing was being overloaded you would see much more wear on the rod half than the cap half and would also likely see some wear in the girdle side of the main bearings. The 4G fortunately has fairly wide bearings so overload failures are not really an issue until you're in the 1000+ hp range.

Last edited by Ayoustin; Aug 12, 2023 at 12:56 AM.
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Old Aug 11, 2023 | 10:12 PM
  #5543  
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Originally Posted by Ayoustin
Rod bearings can certainly be hurt if timing is too far advanced but usually all rod bearings will experience damage before any mains when it comes to oil starvation. When I spun #4 rod bearing in my evo years ago the rods showed increasingly worse wear leading up to #4 and none of the mains showed anything concerning.

Poor fuel or leaning out will typically hurt a piston before a bearing.

If the bearing was being overloaded you would see much more wear on the rod half than the cap half and would also likely see some wear in the girdle side of the main bearings. The 4G fortunately has fairly wide bearings so overload failures are not really an issue until you're in the 1000+ hp range.
Oil starvation will show in the mains if it's bad enough. The mains don't rely on the hydraulic wedge as much as the rods, so they can better tolerate pressure drop. But only to a certain point. This engine shows it. The head also showed sign of lack of oil in the cam journals, and crazy wear in the valve guides.
Attached Thumbnails Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo425.jpg   Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo166.jpg   Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo313.jpg   Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo525.jpg   Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo452.jpg  

Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo577.jpg   Sup w/them 2026 Spring Projects?-photo413.jpg  

Last edited by LetsGetThisDone; Aug 11, 2023 at 10:17 PM.
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 01:00 AM
  #5544  
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Yea it's all spinning metal, anything starved long enough will wear into each other exceedingly fast. Rods will tend the suffer first, followed by mains. Haven't seen many engines with valvetrain wear from starvation, but it certainly happens.

If the block is going to be reused make sure you pull all of the gallery plugs and clean it thoroughly, getting put through a jet washer and even an ultrasonic is not enough to get all of the contamination out.
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 01:47 AM
  #5545  
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Originally Posted by Ayoustin
Yea it's all spinning metal, anything starved long enough will wear into each other exceedingly fast. Rods will tend the suffer first, followed by mains. Haven't seen many engines with valvetrain wear from starvation, but it certainly happens.

If the block is going to be reused make sure you pull all of the gallery plugs and clean it thoroughly, getting put through a jet washer and even an ultrasonic is not enough to get all of the contamination out.
Pulling all the plugs and hand cleaning with bottle brushes is SOP regardless of the engine having failed

This crank obviously won't be reused, but we also remove the ball bearings from the crankshafts oil passages for proper cleaning, and drill/tap the crank for thread plugs and install before balancing.

The machine shop I use... their main line of work is building turn key/drop in trophy truck engines that cost $100k.
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 08:41 AM
  #5546  
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From: SC
Originally Posted by LetsGetThisDone
Pulling all the plugs and hand cleaning with bottle brushes is SOP regardless of the engine having failed

This crank obviously won't be reused, but we also remove the ball bearings from the crankshafts oil passages for proper cleaning, and drill/tap the crank for thread plugs and install before balancing.

The machine shop I use... their main line of work is building turn key/drop in trophy truck engines that cost $100k.
I should've been more specific, that part about cleaning wasn't directed at you haha. I know you know what you're doing
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 12:21 PM
  #5547  
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Originally Posted by Ayoustin
I should've been more specific, that part about cleaning wasn't directed at you haha. I know you know what you're doing
Clean engines are happy engines
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 01:30 PM
  #5548  
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Originally Posted by LetsGetThisDone
Clean engines are happy engines
mines was clean
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 01:33 PM
  #5549  
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I dont really need it right now (knock on wood)... Finally got my first TRE built 5sp transmission, thru B&M.

yay unpainted

with new clutch housing
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Old Aug 12, 2023 | 04:33 PM
  #5550  
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Originally Posted by ViciousLSD
it came like that. I tried to observe and planned to make adjustments but it seems to be in the right range so I didn't touch it
maybe its the low end torque (we abuse during autox)? maybe whatever material that came off my bad cams?
Lets use this as a typical oil pressure scatter graph.
Purple/blue dots are 63-70 degC (145 to 158 degF) on this setup is around 72psi at the mains gallery (approx 82-85 at the oil filter housing).
If the rpm increased at that temp, we would see around 85-90psi a the mains gallery.

"At 80ºC oil temperature (176ºF) and 5500-6000rpm, a reasonable oil pressure number is 90-100psi when measured at the oil filter housing. Measuring oil pressure in the mains gallery (in the OEM oil pressure switch location on Evo 8) will be 10-12psi lower than the oil filter housing."
[section from the IE instructions]

The reason why I say to go to 5500-6000rpm to check the oil pressure when it's hot (80 degC) is that will be around your maximum oil pressure.
If you're 100psi at 3500rpm, then you're probably 120psi (approx) above 5000rpm. Oil grade/weight and oil temp dependant.
While this isn't a "problem", it's probably a bit high. I recommend 90-100psi at the oil filter housing when at operating temp.

That being said, the high oil pressure shouldn't cause any problems. But you will need to keep an eye on the cold oil pressures, they may be far too high (150++)


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