ok. that was the sales pitch (no offense meant). I've never seen you post about racing so I thought there are more normal-use improvements that you saw

 

If you're using the standard blue canister STP, please use a higher quality filter for future. I'm sure its been tossed already, but I'd be interested to see that filter cut open and see if the element failed and allowed unfiltered oil to circulate through the engine. Not all oil filters are created equal, whenever I do filter cuts here, the El Cheapo parts store filters are the easiest to pull the filter media off the end plates, and the have the thinnest media. It always concerns me for getting a random failure since in race applications you spend so much time at high rpm at peak oil pressure and asking for max flow from the filter. We stick to MANN (oem), WIX or K&N filters here at the shop.

Just food for thought.

 

yup thanks. good timing, i need more items in my STM shopping cart

 

I saw the IE pan as a engine insurance mod. I don't see anyway that the IE pan is worse than OEM, Mallory, Racefab and others make a similar pan with less features.

I installed lighter flywheel, so also running a fluidamper, Kigley HLA, OEM windiage tray, and Cosworth crank scraper.
I plan to make some track days, but I can't claim to have raced the car.
I listed the other mods just because I saw them as reliability and oil management parts.
I don't know if you have comparable setup by Tomei or not. Seems like you may.

My thought would be to inspect valve cover and see if the baffles have been screwed on. If they have that's not factory and somebody could have left grit / glass beads ect up under the baffles. If the interior is suspect then perhaps a coat of gyptal could seal the surfaces and bond any blast residue in place.

Also an oil test, if any of the old oil remains. You will see metal in it, but I don't think that caused the problem. More likely the result of the problem. Look for high levels of SiO2 that could have started the failure.

Wish I could help, but thats all I think I know.

Mitsuatb

 

Wait. Did I miss somewhere that the valvecover was bead blasted and then powder coated?

If the valvecover was blasted with any sort of blast media, and the baffles were not removed for cleaning, that is 100% the issue.

 

I can first hand confirm that if the valve cover was cleaned out properly it shouldn't be a problem. I had my valve cover sand blasted and power coated, I washed it out with about an hour of sifting sand out in a bathtub. Then after reading so many dangers of media left in there I removed the baffles. Complete waste of time I didn't find a single grain. If it's been cleaned our proper this shouldn't be an issue.

 

There was no valve cover work. the paint is original. I removed the rivets when I put larger breather fittings, this was 2years ago. I check the new fasteners every time I take the VC off

 

I have Kigley, tomei scraper and added ATI, GSC shaft for the oil pump, ER underdrive pulley on the 2nd engine, which ran super smooth

so ok. the large flat bottom does not slant to help drain contaminants with the oil. you dont think this is a compromise? maybe you can get a bit of slope by raising the front side only sure, maybe give it an hour to drain. doing an oil change on a lift will definitely allow more contaminants to stay. I mean if you care that much about giving the car fresh oil then I assume that would be concerning. My oil pan was drained while on a lift and theres plenty more used oil in it when it was removed. I've posted this earlier. I just want to know how you view those "possible" issues. As an engineer, are they not concerning to you?

Anyway, motorsports car parts right? since you installed it yourself you should be ok removing it and cleaning it every now and then
We all buy "insurance". you just need to know what is covered/not covered by that product.

 

The stock pan has oil left in it when you drain it and then remove. A good amount too.

 

This thread is for the IE pan, not your motor. That's the point we're all trying to make. If you want help diagnosing your motor, moving it to a separate thread is a better way to go.

As for the "large pieces": The oiling system goes from the pan to the oil pump and then through the filter. It wouldn't make sense for pieces to originate in the pan and then also circumvent the filter to destroy your engine. Did you observe these bits in the filter, or is this just conjecture?

As has been mentioned above, the OEM pan drain bolt is also raised above the bottom of the pan slightly. Do you also drop the OEM pan to clean it out for the same reasons?

The idea that "large pieces" are going to settle in the bottom of the pan and conveniently wait for an oil change also doesn't make much sense. The oil cycles through the engine (and filter) many times over between oil changes. It doesn't make sense to rely on oil changes to remove particles from the oil when the oil is constantly being cycled through the filter and the engine.

 

I'm sorry, but you're stretching here. Discussion of oil filter bypass flow is very obviously within the domain of oiling system discussion, including the IE pan.

Likewise, it's not "parroting" when multiple people are bringing up the same points. Most of the points being discussed above aren't novel. There is no "clique" conspiring against you here. Most of us have debated each other on different topics over the years. Different people raising similar points is not evidence of a clique or conspiracy.

Again, really sorry you lost two engines. Isolating variables is a key part of the diagnostic process. However, given all of the other people running the IE pan for many more miles without having the same issue, I'd have a really hard time attributing two failures to the pan when nobody else seems to be having this problem. It's certainly worth discussing the issue and I'm all for a healthy discussion, but the way you're talking about how you "fell for it" feels quite distasteful after RSMike put so much R&D into a part, shared data, and did a gradual rollout of prototype pans followed by larger production runs later. If engines were failing left and right with this pan it would be a different story, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

really, which statement is about MY motor?? I think you have some mental block
And, for the lack of a better word, bias, in your thought process. youre ignoring the overall size of the flat bottom compared to the OE pan. you're also ignoring the walls that slow down dirty used-oil draining. I mentioned these earlier so I guess this goes back to the mental block issue.
If in order to mitigate this is to lift the front and drain oil for an hour, that's already a step forward. I mean what can you do other than modifying the oil pan BEING DISCUSSED in this thread
groupthink is not a good thing, guys.

 

I don't see an issue with the flat bottom - Accusump?

Designing an oil pan to drain metal that should not be there is not a fix. As you unforntally know if there is metal it is too late already.

I was watching a GG video of his evo build summary. I think he was running an Accusump with the IE oil pan. This is the only way to improve the design short of a dry sump.

The only issue I can imagine with the IE pan would be under left foot braking if you carried engine load under deacceleration. The forward return would keep the oil in the front extension and away from the pickup. Not a problem if load is off the engine and above my driving skill. This is not seen in RSMike oil pressure logging so it is purely a theory. I don't know your or his driving style / skill.

I am still convinced the IE pan is better than OEM. An Accusump would be a belt and suspenders solution to fix any oiling issues that may still exist on track.

I noticed that about 1/2 - 1 quart of oil is retained in the oil cooler and lines. On my car it took 7.5 to fill the engine the first time, But only 6.5 quarts to do an oil change. Unless you break the oil cooler lines loose every time. More oil is left in the system than in the pan. This is true with the OEM pan also since it is not a pan issue.

If the issue is FOD, then where is it coming from is the $75 question. Bottle brushes used in oil galleries to clean them out?

My $0.02 worth - Your mileage may vary.

Mitsuatb

 

lolz dude i was discussing oil changes, if you try to read you'll see.

Thats not what parrots do. they just copy/repeat, without understanding. Just look at your recent posts, its still the same for some reason

youre putting too much effort in SELLING the product. maybe subconsciously

let me give you an extreme OOT example. The financial world was backed up by data too, by really smart people in several large companies, with computing power several times more powerful that your standard laptop. I make/improve/generate those stress tests everyday. Well hello 2007. Sorry about your 401k guys. we fell for it and got comfy. A slight change would have helped but groupthink and hero worship was a huge hurdle. dont worry you can rebuild. thats life. should we change our(the whole world) design?

 

OK. As I've indicated when I started my conversation with you, I wanted to know your thought process. So thanks.