What I got from his post, is maybe make your own documenting this. I think thats best for all parties.

 

sooo thats another thing. I could be getting lucky I'm somewhat covered with a warranty (we'll see in the end). if youre going to get a new build, use the stock pan. switch to the aftermarket pan later.

 

I feel like you already made up your mind that it was the pan that caused your failure. Several very intelligent, experienced, knowledgeable people have disputed this and laid out some very well founded explanations as to what a more likely cause to whats led to your engine failures is and you seem to be taking offense to what they are trying to help you instead of listening to what they are pointing out.

Looking at this from a relatively neutral standpoint, Nobody is lecturing or berating you. they are simply trying to explain to you what the likely cause of your engine failures are. If you had some solid data analysis etc showing oil pressure dips at certain points of your autocross runs which prove the IE setup didnt provide you with sustained oil pressure then all of us will go well cool we know the IE pan has a limit. But your just blindly pointing the finger because you installed one and had issues simultaneously. and well if you think its because of contamination in the pan then thats on the person installing it to ensure its clean before bolting it on.

We are all on the same team here, like you said there isnt a heap of people left on these forums luckily most of the weeds have been exterminated and your left with extremely knowledgeable people. take on board the advice and dont take offence to it. We are all here to learn and help each other.

 

I honestly dont understand why people see that I've "made up my mind" and "just bashing" the IE pan. this is just nuts(i meant that in a calm way). we discussed clearances. we discussed contamination. I'm still at that contamination topic. some "experts" say the oil filter wont catch this contamination, then some do. some "experts" say contamination stays around, at the same time or another person say the aftermarket oil pans are great when draining debris with the oil change. there are "experts" like that obviously, not exactly questioning their authority on the subject, but just getting a bit more clarification annoy them. I read thats how you get rid of phone scams... be interested, get them off the script

just thinking about the whole purpose of an oil change (never mind my engine troubles) & looking at these aftermarket oil pans....why couldnt the design be to allow more (larger) debris drain out with the oil? the gap under the walls seem so small. what difference would it make if the gaps are twice as tall? why not slope the bottom panel a little bit so the debris/contaminants rest closer to the drain plug like most oil pans? that's pretty much what i'm saying. Just customer feedback if anything. I mean we were taught about the importance of oil changes since we were kids.
i took the IE pan home, I got a thick layer of 20w50 oil left in the pan after draining it and transporting it side ways. At a minimum I want to figure out how inclined it should be in order to drain more oil & the normal contaminants. What I get here is the "experts" are not that concerned at all. I wonder if the non-experts are.

 

If there is "large debris" in the oil, the engine is already ****ed. An oil change isn't going to save it.

When we're talking about "debris" in the oil from say, the break in process, we're talking metal filings in the 10-20-30-40-50 micron range. Thats it. For an idea, 50 microns is 0.00197", basically a smidge smaller (.0002"-.0003") than the oil clearance in the rod bearing. I'd argue you probably won't even see anything that is 50 micron in the oil of a healthy engine, except maybe on the first break in heat cycle where the rings are really fresh. This why the baffles in the pan are not a concern for draining oil and "debris" from normal engine operation. The debris is hardly even visible to the naked eye.

Everyone in here is pointing towards it not being the pan. Which should only help your case with your shop.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about right here. Just lecturing down. You can't read "(never mind my engine troubles)" because of the superiority complex or maybe you're too-car-guy. I dont know. I need to point out again that my car is being worked on already
Again I'm talking about getting the used oil out. 20w50 is very thick, it just wont flow out easiily. The viscosity, maybe a bit of surface tension going on, it just wont pass thru those tiny gaps easily. The flat surface just doesnt help in getting a good oil change. a higher fluid temp might help. Don't read any more than that for now. What difference would it make if the gaps are twice as tall? why not slope the bottom panel a little bit so the debris/contaminants rest/settle closer to the drain plug like most oil pans? I'm not asking the manufacturer directly because this is just forum chit chat
You're talking about debris "hardly visible" now but previously we need to cut oil filters and send oil samples to labs. This is just an example of the inconsistency. not just from you. Other people work in professional environments ya know. While we can be "technical", we need to be *consistent* and focus on the clients' actual question. Anything else is car-salesmen-like misdirection.
Here's another one. you say "If there is large debris in the oil, the engine is already ****ed. An oil change isn't going to save it." Come on Ryan. Less "expert" level people know you can find RTV, VC baffle material or mystery stuff in there. you just need that to drop the pan and inspect. avoid the breaking on the track more than half a day away. Call it self tech inspection or preventative maintenance. This is MY responsibility according to the documents I sign

I've had "minor inconveniences" with SSB stuff in my specific application too, and have provided feedback. its addressable, no big deal. parts can be replaced or slightly modified. MY IE oil pan is just not easy to modify. Again my goal again is to work around the "flaws" and have productive oil changes (especially with a fresh build)

adding this.. if the IE pan let me see any RTV in there during my last 2 oil changes then it would be all good. not saying thats the problem. it just helps to know oil changes were productive as possible. without lab services

 

When cutting an oil filter, you're looking to not really see anything. If you see stuff in it, especially large chunks of brass/copper, its an indication of a problem and the engine needs to be torn down.

On the OEM evo pan, the drain plug isn't even the lowest point in the pan, its like a 1/16" or so above the bottom.

Best of luck with your car man. I hope your next engine lasts.

 

Start your own thread.

 

Can this pan work with a 4G64 oil pan gasket or only RTV?

 

Yes I know and that was the idea in that scenario, and my engine builder would have done that I'm sure to reduce the overall hassle (again, just a made up scenario). having the compartments and tiny gaps dont help in preventative maintenance, whatever the correct word is

yet we've seen chunks just peaking out before. thats because most of the debris settles really close to the drain plug and does not get stuck in compartments with rubbery gates.

Thank you sir. If I sell the car I have to make sure he/she get a good car also.

 

its a modified stock pan. so either is fine. RTV is just more leak proof

 

Respectfully, in case you dont know, the IE pan has had a number of revisions, also mentioned in the same thread.

 

had to find this post. its definitely one opinion that was influential to me before making the purchase. nothing against you @mitsuatb

 

Another thing that I haven't noticed anyone talking about, what air filter are you running on your setup?
"The best oil filter is a good air filter". Is it possible you've ingested sand/grit via the air filter and it's got into the engine that way?
The bores would have been pretty badly scratched up, it was hard to see in the pictures if that's the case.

All of the revisions of the IE pan have been minor, small performance gains and ease of manufacture.
I have considered a removable baffle section for cleaning, but it will compromise the strength of the unit a lot.
The baffle plates are also structural reinforcement, I'm yet to see a dented or cracked pan!

 

I use Vibrant.
The cylinders are fine I was told and will be reused. The engine builder said it only needed presence of oil, not oil pressure, thats why it was fine.

any impact on the performance & reinforcement if the gaps were a bit higher? not IE pan design question, but more in general. the sloshing issue cant be in that low level, I'm thinking