local Pittsburgh Meet
tell that to the stock evo that was handing out *** whoopings at one of the previous events
I consider that a suspension/tire and driver mod related event.
Originally Posted by Evol.ved
Megatron is a Decepticon.
Hence the reason i said megatron and the other autobots (autobots being jazz, due to a mistype that actually meant autobot
)
the only evo I've seen handing out *** whoopings at local auto-x events has been Jer's and he has a real nice mod list.
I might actually be interested in hitting up PRP here in the next few weeks if possible. I'll have to check their site to see if there are any days availible. Anyone want to come? I'd like to see what this car can do. I'll bet somewere in the 112-115mph range. Hopefully.
I might actually be interested in hitting up PRP here in the next few weeks if possible. I'll have to check their site to see if there are any days availible. Anyone want to come? I'd like to see what this car can do. I'll bet somewere in the 112-115mph range. Hopefully.
But which dyno you put it on will tell you different things.
Cars that make it into mag's for car and drive motor trend etc etc all use a central dyno. The dynojet. Which kinda stinks, and they all do flywheel HP. which is even worse. thats what an evo makes 286 hp stock but on a mustang dyno makes if lucky a whole 206-215 whp. and 8's buschur has dyno'd under 200 whp
(195-196)
Here is a little write up i have been reading over the past few weeks. as well as many others with calculations that show how it actually works. quite interesting.
I knew you wouldnt let me get out alive but ehre is some techincal data for the kids who can read in here
Chassis dynos use one of two basic means to test engines. One is inertial loading, where a large mass of known inertia is accelerated by the test vehicle. This is a simple, but somewhat limited method for testing. The other method, used by Dynapack, involves a load control mechanism that places an operator controlled load on the engine using electrical (eddy current) or hydraulic (fluid pressure) systems. The advantage of a load control type dyno is the ability to simulate a wider variety of real world situations on the dyno. Additionally, because operating conditions can be fixed, hp changes are far easier to measure.
The final difference between a Dynapack and virtually all other chassis dynos on the market today is that the Dynapack eliminates the tire to "road" interface. By using a special hub adaptor that replaces the wheel and tire, the Dynapack eliminates wheel slip, alignment losses, tire inflation/wear issues and more. However, by eliminating the large mass (and attendant inertia) of the wheel and tire combination, the Dynapack does tend to read higher than comparable "roller" dynos.
There are two primary differences between the Dynojet and the Dynapack. The first is very clear when you see them. The Dynapack requires removing the drive wheels and tires from the test vehicle. The second is that the load time (the time it takes to accelerate the test vehicle over a specific rpm range) is operator controlled (and fixed if so desired) on the Dynapack. On the Dynojet, load time is controlled by the amount of hp produced, and by the gear ratio chosen by the operator. We will address both of these in our calculations. (all calcs will be done in metric terms and we will convert to more commonly used hp and lbs-ft at the end)
This is why we recommend people use a rough percentage adjustment to estimate flywheel hp on the Dynojet versus a rough fixed adjustment on the Dynapack. In our experience, a manual transmission FWD car will lose 20-25 hp to the hubs on the Dynapack. A RWD car will lose 25-30 hp and an AWD car about 35-40 hp (the FWD case has been verified on an engine dyno). In contrast, losses on the Dynojet will be in the 12-14% range for FWD and 14-16% for RWD (opinions vary).
Cars that make it into mag's for car and drive motor trend etc etc all use a central dyno. The dynojet. Which kinda stinks, and they all do flywheel HP. which is even worse. thats what an evo makes 286 hp stock but on a mustang dyno makes if lucky a whole 206-215 whp. and 8's buschur has dyno'd under 200 whp
(195-196) Here is a little write up i have been reading over the past few weeks. as well as many others with calculations that show how it actually works. quite interesting.
I knew you wouldnt let me get out alive but ehre is some techincal data for the kids who can read in here
Chassis dynos use one of two basic means to test engines. One is inertial loading, where a large mass of known inertia is accelerated by the test vehicle. This is a simple, but somewhat limited method for testing. The other method, used by Dynapack, involves a load control mechanism that places an operator controlled load on the engine using electrical (eddy current) or hydraulic (fluid pressure) systems. The advantage of a load control type dyno is the ability to simulate a wider variety of real world situations on the dyno. Additionally, because operating conditions can be fixed, hp changes are far easier to measure.
The final difference between a Dynapack and virtually all other chassis dynos on the market today is that the Dynapack eliminates the tire to "road" interface. By using a special hub adaptor that replaces the wheel and tire, the Dynapack eliminates wheel slip, alignment losses, tire inflation/wear issues and more. However, by eliminating the large mass (and attendant inertia) of the wheel and tire combination, the Dynapack does tend to read higher than comparable "roller" dynos.
There are two primary differences between the Dynojet and the Dynapack. The first is very clear when you see them. The Dynapack requires removing the drive wheels and tires from the test vehicle. The second is that the load time (the time it takes to accelerate the test vehicle over a specific rpm range) is operator controlled (and fixed if so desired) on the Dynapack. On the Dynojet, load time is controlled by the amount of hp produced, and by the gear ratio chosen by the operator. We will address both of these in our calculations. (all calcs will be done in metric terms and we will convert to more commonly used hp and lbs-ft at the end)
This is why we recommend people use a rough percentage adjustment to estimate flywheel hp on the Dynojet versus a rough fixed adjustment on the Dynapack. In our experience, a manual transmission FWD car will lose 20-25 hp to the hubs on the Dynapack. A RWD car will lose 25-30 hp and an AWD car about 35-40 hp (the FWD case has been verified on an engine dyno). In contrast, losses on the Dynojet will be in the 12-14% range for FWD and 14-16% for RWD (opinions vary).
Peteypab2133,
Your internet rice logic has failed you once again. You've been on a dyno what once? maybe twice? This does not make you an expert (despite what you may have read). I think your just trying to pump up your ego because the only dyno I'm aware of you hitting is a mustang dyno. Now why don't you go back to your magazines............I mean building your car. Whats the latest hot parts going on this b1tch again?
luf u long time,
dan
Your internet rice logic has failed you once again. You've been on a dyno what once? maybe twice? This does not make you an expert (despite what you may have read). I think your just trying to pump up your ego because the only dyno I'm aware of you hitting is a mustang dyno. Now why don't you go back to your magazines............I mean building your car. Whats the latest hot parts going on this b1tch again?
luf u long time,
dan
Is it just me or are there more than one tool bag on this forum. If we are not talking about motor mounts or transmission fluid you are a bad guy.. Its about out of hand. Half of the people on here have no clue why they are even arguing with me. We got auto crossers getting handled by stock evo ( who was it spunomi or something?) or at least competing competitively, and they are arguing that power makes a difference
We got others arguing about formulations made by dyno's and if they were correct then EVERY dyno would read the same. I NEVER SAID THE CAR WOULD GET FASTER DOWN THE TRACK because one dyno reads higher than the other. Are you folks really that uneducated that you cannot read what I am typing? I simply said that one dyno makes numbers that may be higher than others...
Questioning how many times i have been on a dyno is totally irrelevant. So if i have only been on a mustang dyno, but have personally seen over 100 + cars on a dyno in person. I dont see where you are coming from Danl .. I think you are more of a tool bag everytime you type on here. I mean honestly, you really are a douche bag I would like nothing more than to hold you down next time and set my ***** on your forehead . . .
not sure what the funny faces were for after the copy/paste denny ? but also not going to waste my time with that either.
I used to go by the moto, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Well, I am not going with that anymore.
so how does that relate to your power argument?
It had absolutely NOTHING to do with my power argument that I have been making. If you read I said that you don't need large amounts of power to play autocross.
did i miss something? whats funny?
Get any new bushings lately? I am sure we are all dying to hear about it..
Well if you must know.. I sold the car. never really modded it. I just kept taking pictures of my cousin mikes buddy with an evo. I apologize for lying to you this whole time. I am sure you can just go back to your gay little pittspeed forum and suck on thier d1cks a little more.
We got others arguing about formulations made by dyno's and if they were correct then EVERY dyno would read the same. I NEVER SAID THE CAR WOULD GET FASTER DOWN THE TRACK because one dyno reads higher than the other. Are you folks really that uneducated that you cannot read what I am typing? I simply said that one dyno makes numbers that may be higher than others...
Questioning how many times i have been on a dyno is totally irrelevant. So if i have only been on a mustang dyno, but have personally seen over 100 + cars on a dyno in person. I dont see where you are coming from Danl .. I think you are more of a tool bag everytime you type on here. I mean honestly, you really are a douche bag I would like nothing more than to hold you down next time and set my ***** on your forehead . . .
not sure what the funny faces were for after the copy/paste denny ? but also not going to waste my time with that either.
I used to go by the moto, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Well, I am not going with that anymore.
Originally Posted by MondoBongo
so how does that relate to your power argument?
Originally Posted by dennyt4

Originally Posted by travman
wow......i hope it didn't take you weeks of reading to come to that conclusion
Originally Posted by dan l
Peteypab2133,
Your internet rice logic has failed you once again. You've been on a dyno what once? maybe twice? This does not make you an expert (despite what you may have read). I think your just trying to pump up your ego because the only dyno I'm aware of you hitting is a mustang dyno. Now why don't you go back to your magazines............I mean building your car. Whats the latest hot parts going on this b1tch again?
luf u long time,
dan
Your internet rice logic has failed you once again. You've been on a dyno what once? maybe twice? This does not make you an expert (despite what you may have read). I think your just trying to pump up your ego because the only dyno I'm aware of you hitting is a mustang dyno. Now why don't you go back to your magazines............I mean building your car. Whats the latest hot parts going on this b1tch again?
luf u long time,
dan
Is it just me or are there more than one tool bag on this forum. If we are not talking about motor mounts or transmission fluid you are a bad guy.. Its about out of hand. Half of the people on here have no clue why they are even arguing with me. We got auto crossers getting handled by stock evo ( who was it spunomi or something?) or at least competing competitively, and they are arguing that power makes a difference
It had absolutely NOTHING to do with my power argument that I have been making. If you read I said that you don't need large amounts of power to play autocross.
It had absolutely NOTHING to do with my power argument that I have been making. If you read I said that you don't need large amounts of power to play autocross.
The event your speaking of was a time trial, not an auto-x. I know going straight for 1320ft is much harder to do, but it's just straight. Auto-x, hill climbs and tme trials teaches you about your driving skill, car controll and things you can use all the time driving.
I've been to the dragstrip and it's fun but after about six times down the track, with times very consistent. I saw no need to keep going. I wasn't going to change my engine management, cause it was already at max 'safe' levels of boost.
to each his own.
just one i'm pretty sure.
my point is that your argument is completely erroneous, and you are basically just making things up at this point. horsepower ALWAYS gives you an advantage. no matter what kind of racing you do.
i've never claimed i was a fast driver, so i don't have a problem saying this, these newbz that have been coming out to the autocross/tt can f*cking drive! there are also other factors to take in to account, like the fact that i really didn't modify my car in a specific course for autocross. in fact, i will go as far to say that some of my mods don't necessarily make sense for an STU class car. but i digress. sure, i may have a bit more power than the stock evos, but really, not all that much
and it's not like it has been an *** whooping either way. we're actually all very close in times at most of the events.
i realize you're just trying to stir the pot, but i couldn't resist pointing out that your comments are really non sequiters.
i've never claimed i was a fast driver, so i don't have a problem saying this, these newbz that have been coming out to the autocross/tt can f*cking drive! there are also other factors to take in to account, like the fact that i really didn't modify my car in a specific course for autocross. in fact, i will go as far to say that some of my mods don't necessarily make sense for an STU class car. but i digress. sure, i may have a bit more power than the stock evos, but really, not all that much
and it's not like it has been an *** whooping either way. we're actually all very close in times at most of the events.
i realize you're just trying to stir the pot, but i couldn't resist pointing out that your comments are really non sequiters.
Boy here we go again!
. I'm confused
. So we have arguements over dyno's, which Denny already has experience defending.lol. I kno he remembers. The bottem line is who cares anyways. Even at the track, who cares who is faster. Its all about money anyways. I could build a car to stomp on the 1/4 mile. I just don't care. All of our cars are fast.
Auto-x= no HP. Well Justin said it right. HP matters anyhwere, 1/4 mile, Auto-x, etc. Now not as much as Tires and driver like Petey said. (he does say some correct things).
So i'm sick of all this bickering. I do have one question for Petey. There are so many rumors as to what the heck is going on. Can you just please be honest. Do you have a car? Is it being built? If so great, keep working on it. If not, the joke is over.
. I'm confused
. So we have arguements over dyno's, which Denny already has experience defending.lol. I kno he remembers. The bottem line is who cares anyways. Even at the track, who cares who is faster. Its all about money anyways. I could build a car to stomp on the 1/4 mile. I just don't care. All of our cars are fast. Auto-x= no HP. Well Justin said it right. HP matters anyhwere, 1/4 mile, Auto-x, etc. Now not as much as Tires and driver like Petey said. (he does say some correct things).
So i'm sick of all this bickering. I do have one question for Petey. There are so many rumors as to what the heck is going on. Can you just please be honest. Do you have a car? Is it being built? If so great, keep working on it. If not, the joke is over.
wow. we all need a change of subject. i dug this out of Peter Egan's 'Side Glances':
TUNING SECRETS OF THE ULTRA SLOW
Slowing race cars down, it seems, has become an important business these days. As engineers keep finding new ways to generate speed and downforce, rule makers have their hands full keeping cars on the track, away from the walls and out of the bleachers. And this pursuit of slowness calls for constant inventiveness in the fine, allied arts of downgrading and backsliding.
Now I may be way out of line, but it seems to me there's something odd about spending perfectly good money to make a car go more slowly than its designers intended. I point this out not only because I personally have been making cars go slower for years, mostly through sheer stupidity, without spending an extra dime. Where I come from, slowness is cheap. In the name of thrift and economy, then, I've decided to share with the big boys a few of the trackside tuning secrets that those of us at the bottom of the racing totem pole have found effective in the unending quest for mediocre lap times.
1) Leave a tennis ball in one of the velocity stacks of your downdraft carb. This is an old trick, granted, but it works. The tennis ball should be left in the secondary choke, rather than the primary. That way the engine starts, idles and appears to be running fine, but in the race it reaches a terminal speed of about 42mph. If a tennis ball is unavailable, try duck tape, which has been my own personal favorite for smothering the fires of internal combustion.
2) Port your own cylinder head. This trick has made nearly all my race engines somewhat slower than those of the competition and has saved a bundle of money I would have had to fork over to an expert in the cylinder-head porting business.
3) Buy all your race tires used from a guy names Larry who thinks they were still "pretty sticky" when he took them off his Titan Mark 6C in 1979. To be correct, the tires should be about as shiny as the pants on a cheap suit and should register just below tungsten on the Rockwell hardness chart.
4) Install your distributor drive 180 degrees off. This is a modification for the drivers who really want to slow down and is even more effective than the old plot of crossing spark plug wires - but requires greater mechanical skill and know-how. As an accidental modification, it's also hard to track down and will keep you up all night while you crank the engine, stare into the backfiring throats of your carbs and burn your eyebrows off. Remember, a tired driver with a good set of flashburns is a slow driver.
5) Try to get on the bad side of the chief steward during the drivers' meeting. Friendly jokes about his "putting on a little weight" usually work. This'll get you black-flagged at the first hint of a water leak from your cooling-system catch tank. In case you are unfamiliar with race track staffing, the chief steward is a man or woman what has been specially trained to shuffle slowly from the bridge to the end of pit row, where you are waiting to find out why you've been black flagged.
The list could go on forever if we really want to plumb the depths of idiocy in race preps and strategy. Good luck, drive safe and always try to keep two tires on the infield grass.
TUNING SECRETS OF THE ULTRA SLOW
Slowing race cars down, it seems, has become an important business these days. As engineers keep finding new ways to generate speed and downforce, rule makers have their hands full keeping cars on the track, away from the walls and out of the bleachers. And this pursuit of slowness calls for constant inventiveness in the fine, allied arts of downgrading and backsliding.
Now I may be way out of line, but it seems to me there's something odd about spending perfectly good money to make a car go more slowly than its designers intended. I point this out not only because I personally have been making cars go slower for years, mostly through sheer stupidity, without spending an extra dime. Where I come from, slowness is cheap. In the name of thrift and economy, then, I've decided to share with the big boys a few of the trackside tuning secrets that those of us at the bottom of the racing totem pole have found effective in the unending quest for mediocre lap times.
1) Leave a tennis ball in one of the velocity stacks of your downdraft carb. This is an old trick, granted, but it works. The tennis ball should be left in the secondary choke, rather than the primary. That way the engine starts, idles and appears to be running fine, but in the race it reaches a terminal speed of about 42mph. If a tennis ball is unavailable, try duck tape, which has been my own personal favorite for smothering the fires of internal combustion.
2) Port your own cylinder head. This trick has made nearly all my race engines somewhat slower than those of the competition and has saved a bundle of money I would have had to fork over to an expert in the cylinder-head porting business.
3) Buy all your race tires used from a guy names Larry who thinks they were still "pretty sticky" when he took them off his Titan Mark 6C in 1979. To be correct, the tires should be about as shiny as the pants on a cheap suit and should register just below tungsten on the Rockwell hardness chart.
4) Install your distributor drive 180 degrees off. This is a modification for the drivers who really want to slow down and is even more effective than the old plot of crossing spark plug wires - but requires greater mechanical skill and know-how. As an accidental modification, it's also hard to track down and will keep you up all night while you crank the engine, stare into the backfiring throats of your carbs and burn your eyebrows off. Remember, a tired driver with a good set of flashburns is a slow driver.
5) Try to get on the bad side of the chief steward during the drivers' meeting. Friendly jokes about his "putting on a little weight" usually work. This'll get you black-flagged at the first hint of a water leak from your cooling-system catch tank. In case you are unfamiliar with race track staffing, the chief steward is a man or woman what has been specially trained to shuffle slowly from the bridge to the end of pit row, where you are waiting to find out why you've been black flagged.
The list could go on forever if we really want to plumb the depths of idiocy in race preps and strategy. Good luck, drive safe and always try to keep two tires on the infield grass.


