Stepping my IX up for 91/E85, looking for final preparation suggestions
S2 cams and springs/retainers are in. Ended up not being able to consistently compress the springs to get any meaningful pressure readings. Springs compressed at a slight angle and it took too many tries to get it straight. Didn't have the time to do it for 16 springs.
Then during installation, I couldn't use the spring micrometer to measure each spring height because diameter didn't fit on evo head (darn!!). I did measure the top of retainer to top edge of head and found that the keepers can make retainers sit as much as 0.4 mm lower if not installed at its highest setting. I think it will move into place when engine is rotated, but I didn't want to risk the keepers popping out, so I released all the low readings and adjusted the keepers to sit at highest point. There is a height difference on 0.2 mm between all my installed valves (which is about 10 pounds difference at rest and maybe 20 pounds when compressed by cam, remember, there is a 1.7 factor from rocker arm, so cams will see 11.8 pounds of the 20).
Installation notes:
I tried using compressed air to keep valves up when replacing but that doesn't work well. In fact, it didn't work at all for me. Valves need to contact pistons to break the keepers free from stock retainers. So keepers with piston down position were stuck. When I was thinking about rotating the crankshaft, I noticed piston moved from the compressed air and SCREWED up my timing! UGH!!!. So I ended up rotating crank to TDC for the valves I was working on and abandoned the compressed air technique. I took a look inside the spark plug holes with a boroscope and saw a LOT of moisture buildup on piston walls. I don't recommend using compressed air!! Just rotate pistons to TDC for each valve you're working on and it can only drop 5 to 10 mm.
Resetting the timing belt was a pain because the front balance shaft was off a tooth one way and then the other way after adjustment. It felt like it should be midway in between. After resetting 4 times, I realized it was off because I didn't tighten the tensioner pulley enough both times I had it right.
Car is running and cold idle is crap since cams are letting in more air. Once engine warms up, idle stumbles every so often. Light boost to 3 or 4 psi was at 12.0 AFR.
Tuning is this Friday and I need to do a boost leak test to 30 psi again. I also want to do compression test to get a baseline of where I am with S2 cams. I was between 145 and 155 with stock cams. I noticed that intake idle vacuum dropped from 16-18 mmHg to 12-14 mmHg, which was expected. I borrowed my friend's SpoolinUp so I can test the difference Friday. I'm making my own COP from Honda but I won't get the connectors in time. Boo!
If any of you guys have any suggestions to help me plan for tuning Friday, please let me know!!!!
Then during installation, I couldn't use the spring micrometer to measure each spring height because diameter didn't fit on evo head (darn!!). I did measure the top of retainer to top edge of head and found that the keepers can make retainers sit as much as 0.4 mm lower if not installed at its highest setting. I think it will move into place when engine is rotated, but I didn't want to risk the keepers popping out, so I released all the low readings and adjusted the keepers to sit at highest point. There is a height difference on 0.2 mm between all my installed valves (which is about 10 pounds difference at rest and maybe 20 pounds when compressed by cam, remember, there is a 1.7 factor from rocker arm, so cams will see 11.8 pounds of the 20).
Installation notes:
I tried using compressed air to keep valves up when replacing but that doesn't work well. In fact, it didn't work at all for me. Valves need to contact pistons to break the keepers free from stock retainers. So keepers with piston down position were stuck. When I was thinking about rotating the crankshaft, I noticed piston moved from the compressed air and SCREWED up my timing! UGH!!!. So I ended up rotating crank to TDC for the valves I was working on and abandoned the compressed air technique. I took a look inside the spark plug holes with a boroscope and saw a LOT of moisture buildup on piston walls. I don't recommend using compressed air!! Just rotate pistons to TDC for each valve you're working on and it can only drop 5 to 10 mm.
Resetting the timing belt was a pain because the front balance shaft was off a tooth one way and then the other way after adjustment. It felt like it should be midway in between. After resetting 4 times, I realized it was off because I didn't tighten the tensioner pulley enough both times I had it right.
Car is running and cold idle is crap since cams are letting in more air. Once engine warms up, idle stumbles every so often. Light boost to 3 or 4 psi was at 12.0 AFR.
Tuning is this Friday and I need to do a boost leak test to 30 psi again. I also want to do compression test to get a baseline of where I am with S2 cams. I was between 145 and 155 with stock cams. I noticed that intake idle vacuum dropped from 16-18 mmHg to 12-14 mmHg, which was expected. I borrowed my friend's SpoolinUp so I can test the difference Friday. I'm making my own COP from Honda but I won't get the connectors in time. Boo!
If any of you guys have any suggestions to help me plan for tuning Friday, please let me know!!!!
Very Interesting topic here. Not even GSC has consistent uncompressed valve spring heights. It makes me wonder if people should use shims at all to adjust each installed spring to an even stationary spring pressure.
I guess my questions to Evom are: what other advantages do we get out of setting each springs individual pressure equal to the rest, other than equal distribution of load on the cams during rotation?
Suppose my valve springs were all very stiff and my cams were very strong, so much so that I never had to worry about valve float or breaking a camshaft. What's the other advantage to making sure all valve springs have equal tension? Install height of the spring is set by the retainer, keepers, and valve seat stopping movement of the valve itself.
Last edited by Pal215; Jan 26, 2018 at 04:22 PM.
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I think the higher spring rates will wear down the cam lobes a little faster. But you'd have to compare after 60k and 120k miles to see. In the short run, it won't matter.
Very Interesting topic here. Not even GSC has consistent uncompressed valve spring heights. It makes me wonder if people should use shims at all to adjust each installed spring to an even stationary spring pressure.
I guess my questions to Evom are: what other advantages do we get out of setting each springs individual pressure equal to the rest, other than equal distribution of load on the cams during rotation?
Suppose my valve springs were all very stiff and my cams were very strong, so much so that I never had to worry about valve float or breaking a camshaft. What's the other advantage to making sure all valve springs have equal tension? Install height of the spring is set by the retainer, keepers, and valve seat stopping movement of the valve itself.
I guess my questions to Evom are: what other advantages do we get out of setting each springs individual pressure equal to the rest, other than equal distribution of load on the cams during rotation?
Suppose my valve springs were all very stiff and my cams were very strong, so much so that I never had to worry about valve float or breaking a camshaft. What's the other advantage to making sure all valve springs have equal tension? Install height of the spring is set by the retainer, keepers, and valve seat stopping movement of the valve itself.
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I think I saw 435 ft-lbs of torque. Sam tuned it down to 420 since bottom end is stock. He tuned mivec to spool me up early. Look at how early my torque peaks (yikes!!).
Mivec tune with S2 got me about 20 whp from about 3600rpm and 35 whp at 7500rpm. I had Sam give me some cushion by pulling 1 to 2 degrees of timing throughout. Also, my RC 1200 cc injectors maxed out (1200cc rating is at 55psi but my stock FPR runs at 43psi, so it's closer to 1000cc, according to Sam). Pretty amazing still.
Mivec tune with S2 got me about 20 whp from about 3600rpm and 35 whp at 7500rpm. I had Sam give me some cushion by pulling 1 to 2 degrees of timing throughout. Also, my RC 1200 cc injectors maxed out (1200cc rating is at 55psi but my stock FPR runs at 43psi, so it's closer to 1000cc, according to Sam). Pretty amazing still.
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I take this back because the rocker arms has roller bearing that spins with the cams. The wear will be the rocker arms not cam lobs. 4G63 setup will last a very long time. Just check rocker roller bearings with each timing belt change to make sure none locked up where cam lobes drag on locked up roller bearings.
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jan 27, 2018 at 12:16 AM.
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It's amazing to drive! 1st through 3rd feels like tire traction are at their limits. It wants to break free! With Exedy twin disc clutch, it revs so fast in 1st that I hit redline fast. Then shifting into 2nd, engine redlines again in about a second. It's SO fast!
Great thread, as my EvO is over there right now for work (HTA71, S2's & a 60K service)
Looking fwd to matching your no.s as well!
What intake are you running? Was hoping Sam would recommend speed density but havent discussed w/him yet
Thanks,
Looking fwd to matching your no.s as well!
What intake are you running? Was hoping Sam would recommend speed density but havent discussed w/him yet
Thanks,
Last edited by MinusPrevious; Jan 27, 2018 at 08:12 AM.
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I don't have anything special on intake. I have Injen hard pipes with their basic cone filter (I spray painted mine with high temp black to look stock). What injectors do you have? HTA71 has a little more breath than the RC 1200cc can handle on stock 43.5 PSI fuel pressure.
I did my own porting and honing on my stock exhaust manifold and turbo hotside. If you have another $300, look into FP's exhaust manifold (you will love it!). Which Evo was yours? I saw 3 Evo 9s there yesterday. 2 blacks and a white.
Edit: scratch the white. That was an evo 8. Is yours the one with exhaust dump through the hood vent and exhaust pipe through front bumper on passenger side?
Double edit: I forgot you have a white RS. Had to look you up to remind me.
I did my own porting and honing on my stock exhaust manifold and turbo hotside. If you have another $300, look into FP's exhaust manifold (you will love it!). Which Evo was yours? I saw 3 Evo 9s there yesterday. 2 blacks and a white.
Edit: scratch the white. That was an evo 8. Is yours the one with exhaust dump through the hood vent and exhaust pipe through front bumper on passenger side?
Double edit: I forgot you have a white RS. Had to look you up to remind me.
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jan 27, 2018 at 09:38 AM.
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Speed density is a great upgrade, but it needs a lot of fine tuning. And it won't compensate for new mods without a tune as easily. So get SD upgrade as the last mod. Before switching to SD, you can still upgrade exhaust and intake manifolds (larger aftermarket or match port & polish your stock), larger throttle body, aftermarket FPR (if you have RC 1200cc, but it will make fuel pump work harder, which increases chances of failure).
If you go SD, get the short turbo intake pipe to locate the cone filter in the biggest opening (farthest away from ACD reservoir, because the Injen kits put it there and the reservoir bolts will damage filter, but if you adjust it too far away, the hood fabric makes contact and it rubs the fabric into dust and some gets sucked into engine). Remember, air filter moves with every hard acceleration and shift while everything else is fixed to frame.
What's awesome with SD is that it runs fine if you have a boost leak. You just don't get the full power. It's not the same with the stock air flow meter.
If you go SD, get the short turbo intake pipe to locate the cone filter in the biggest opening (farthest away from ACD reservoir, because the Injen kits put it there and the reservoir bolts will damage filter, but if you adjust it too far away, the hood fabric makes contact and it rubs the fabric into dust and some gets sucked into engine). Remember, air filter moves with every hard acceleration and shift while everything else is fixed to frame.
What's awesome with SD is that it runs fine if you have a boost leak. You just don't get the full power. It's not the same with the stock air flow meter.
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Also, we tested SpoolinUp kit with the 90919-02240 COP. We made an extra 3 hp throughout power curve, but that was with 15 minutes of cool down (because I remembered 10 minutes after we finished and we then switched the ignition, LOL). So for $430, is it worth a possible 2, 1, or 0 hp?
Edit: by cool down, there were 2 fans blowing at intercooler and a fan sucking the exhaust out the back. So I expect a lot of that 3 hp to be from cooler engine and room temperature intercooler. Want to buy a COP now?
Edit: by cool down, there were 2 fans blowing at intercooler and a fan sucking the exhaust out the back. So I expect a lot of that 3 hp to be from cooler engine and room temperature intercooler. Want to buy a COP now?
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jan 27, 2018 at 08:58 AM.
Mine is a white EvO9 RS (should be there LOL). Hey, ive only got RC1000's so we will have to see
Curious how you connected to the FP 84mm inlet. What adapter did you use? I may have to get the same one
May take your advice & just stick w/the MAF vs SD
Curious how you connected to the FP 84mm inlet. What adapter did you use? I may have to get the same one
May take your advice & just stick w/the MAF vs SD
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Joined: Jul 2012
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From: California
Look up the specs. If their 1000cc rating is like mine, it is at 55psi fuel pressure. You will need to upsize. My 1200cc is rated at 55psi, so at stock 43.5psi, it's about 950cc
Update: I found a site that stated that our RC1200cc flows 1090cc at 43.5 psi. So new 1100cc injectors won't be much better. Blah!
Update: I found a site that stated that our RC1200cc flows 1090cc at 43.5 psi. So new 1100cc injectors won't be much better. Blah!
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jan 29, 2018 at 09:16 AM.