BR, 2.4, high hp/high rpm build?
I was attempting to find the old thread but no such luck 
Mikey / Rock - ^^ That is not true at all...People did not add to the block because they felt there was no need, not because it pulled too much oil from the crank. I don't want to say that putting squirters in will increase engine life, but I cannot understand why someone would NOT do it when building such an awesome engine. In the end I am sure it is fine either way, but if I build a 2.4 I would definitely do it. After speaking to a few piston manufacturers here in Socal, it was recommended.
(You can read more from SeanC and his build.)
(You can read more from SeanC and his build.)
oil squirters keep your pistons strong in theory. in application, I don't know of a 2.4 failure due to softening of the forged pistons. so, you should be good. Perhaps in the loooooong run the piston will be affected, but by then fp diamond will be out and a 2.5L would be being swapped as the new "craze"
BLK and Roc do bring up a valid point and is something I didn't take into consideration. Installing them on a motor that was not intended for them.... Should a slightly higher volume/pressure oil pump be installed with the addition of the squirters? The only way to find out would be to record oil pressure values with and w/o them.
Regardless, manufacturers install them help lubricate and cool the piston, wrist pin and connecting rod. I would want the same amount of protection for a motor that's going to have a rough life from the moment it's installed.
That's all I'm saying. Half assing might have been the wrong choice of words.
Regardless, manufacturers install them help lubricate and cool the piston, wrist pin and connecting rod. I would want the same amount of protection for a motor that's going to have a rough life from the moment it's installed.
That's all I'm saying. Half assing might have been the wrong choice of words.
BLK and Roc do bring up a valid point and is something I didn't take into consideration. Installing them on a motor that was not intended for them.... Should a slightly higher volume/pressure oil pump be installed with the addition of the squirters? The only way to find out would be to record oil pressure values with and w/o them.
Regardless, manufacturers install them help lubricate and cool the piston, wrist pin and connecting rod. I would want the same amount of protection for a motor that's going to have a rough life from the moment it's installed.
That's all I'm saying. Half assing might have been the wrong choice of words.
Regardless, manufacturers install them help lubricate and cool the piston, wrist pin and connecting rod. I would want the same amount of protection for a motor that's going to have a rough life from the moment it's installed.
That's all I'm saying. Half assing might have been the wrong choice of words.
for the 1/4 mile and daily i guess the oil squirter is not needed. but what if the car is used on a road course like 20 min at a time. besides if you want to keep the oil in the crank then a crank scraper would be useful for that. i hope the engine builders and track junkies chime in. i just want to see their opinion on this.
About squirters ...
The jet of oil a squirter applies to the underside of the piston is several hundred degrees cooler than the piston itself. I think that should provide some perspective on what that does to remove heat from the underside of the piston. More hp = more heat.
When one starts talking about greater hp and shorter compression heights (e.g. longer rods and smaller pistons), heat becomes a greater concern, simply because increasing amounts of heat must be transferred away from a smaller piston. This is a bit like running a larger audio amp with a smaller power fuse. Squirters aid in channeling heat away from the piston. By how much? I don't know. A little bit of engineering could provide a good estimate.
As for long strokes and long rods, I think I'd stick with a 156mm rod for a 2.4L 4G64. Already that leaves little (<30mm) compression height, and that isn't much. Going a few mm longer on the rod won't make a difference on the dyno, but it will make a difference at the piston.
If one doesn't have enough oil pump to handle squirters, he darn sure doesn't have enough pump to go racing, either with or without them.
FYI
The jet of oil a squirter applies to the underside of the piston is several hundred degrees cooler than the piston itself. I think that should provide some perspective on what that does to remove heat from the underside of the piston. More hp = more heat.
When one starts talking about greater hp and shorter compression heights (e.g. longer rods and smaller pistons), heat becomes a greater concern, simply because increasing amounts of heat must be transferred away from a smaller piston. This is a bit like running a larger audio amp with a smaller power fuse. Squirters aid in channeling heat away from the piston. By how much? I don't know. A little bit of engineering could provide a good estimate.
As for long strokes and long rods, I think I'd stick with a 156mm rod for a 2.4L 4G64. Already that leaves little (<30mm) compression height, and that isn't much. Going a few mm longer on the rod won't make a difference on the dyno, but it will make a difference at the piston.
If one doesn't have enough oil pump to handle squirters, he darn sure doesn't have enough pump to go racing, either with or without them.
FYI
Interesting theories on the oil squirters. They are there for piston cooling. Odd thing is when I build a really high horsepower early 4g63 I prefer to use the non-turbo blocks.........they have no oil squirters. Less drag on the piston scaping the oil back off the cylinder walls, keeps more oil in the oil pan where it belongs and the engine runs substantially more oil pressure, especially when the engine is HOT and has been worked hard.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
Interesting theories on the oil squirters. They are there for piston cooling. Odd thing is when I build a really high horsepower early 4g63 I prefer to use the non-turbo blocks.........they have no oil squirters. Less drag on the piston scaping the oil back off the cylinder walls, keeps more oil in the oil pan where it belongs and the engine runs substantially more oil pressure, especially when the engine is HOT and has been worked hard.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
. love it when david and Mike comment and never hurts to have TED B INVOLVED!!!! win win
Interesting theories on the oil squirters. They are there for piston cooling. Odd thing is when I build a really high horsepower early 4g63 I prefer to use the non-turbo blocks.........they have no oil squirters. Less drag on the piston scaping the oil back off the cylinder walls, keeps more oil in the oil pan where it belongs and the engine runs substantially more oil pressure, especially when the engine is HOT and has been worked hard.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
I'll skip the squirter on the 2.4's and 2.1's we build. I did a fair amount of testing on oil temps in my car when the engine was hard blocked and had NO coolant in it at all. I was also running NO oil cooler, you'd be surprised how cool the oil stayed after 20 miles of driving, it never got over 185 degrees F.
Mikey
Last edited by BLKCarbonEVO; Jun 15, 2010 at 07:55 PM.