Shiv - I choose not to waste my time engaging you in dialloge - your posting of a thread of this nature has reinforced my feeling that I want nothing to do what so ever with you or your products.

I simply have better things to do with my life that argue with you about your testing methods with two tunes at different boost points.

My points have been made and those who are interested in this subject can PM or call me directly to discuss these matters if they have additional curiosity.

For those who have been around this forum for some time you will find that many of these same subjects have been discussed between Shiv and I at length back two years ago.

Back in those days of course many of the same Shiv supporters would warn customers that with my then untested tuning surely the motors of my customers would not last any length of time. Its funny how with some of them now over 100,000 miles strong their motors and going strong and so is Dyno Flash.

I tune customers just about every day on dynos and I tune them on roads - the results of course are the same in fact many times I am more confident with road tuning - but that is a whole topic of conversation for another day and another time.

Please Shiv - go discuss this with people who care, I don't.

 

On topic question:

Does a load bearing dyno put more load on the car then the road when using 4-5th gear? I noticed that I always hit higher load cells when I am going up hills in 4th gear.

Basically, will a load bearing dyno simulate the highest load up the car will ever see(5th gear road pull) in 3rd gear? That way I could interpolate the data into the lower cells and get it all done in one shot.

 

I just put up a post that reads Evo Competition. Everyone talks prize money etc....but people dont show, break down, come unprepped....Im talkin 100% positive attendance, 100% "A" Game brought down....and no holds barred.

All things equal, Ive never seen this happen. Id want Norris to bring his car over, RC Developments, all our american tuners, anyone from New Zealand...subject....oh, just read the post.

But yes, thats the best way to do it

 

I can tell by looking at his graph that he doesn't log RPM. Which is odd since with an accelometer he could plot HP/TQ graphs w/ the RPM input connected. Then his customers could have before and after road dyno graphs.

 

Some points I'd like to ... err ... point out:

1) Just because two cars have virtually identical data logs does not mean you have a good tune. Consistent, yes. But they could just both be consistently poor (not trying to say that they actually are).

2) Lowering boost does not necessarily mean lowering power output. I've seen it demonstrated on my own car and have seen others talk about it. In my case I can generate more power by running more timing and less boost when my turbo first spools (~5-8 whp difference).

3) While the graphs Shiv posted seem to clearly indicate that the original tune of the car was significantly off, some of the difference most likely resulted from the removal of the aftermarket parts. It would not be hard to surmise that the intake/UICP combo did flow a little more air. Therefore, with the stock pieces back in place, the original tune may have lost some boost, run richer and lost some power. However, it is hard to believe that it would have lost 30+whp only due to the parts change. My guess is that it ultimately is a combination of the two: The tune wasn't quite as good as it could be, and losing the parts certainly didn't help it.

4) I don't think RPM was being logged for the run(s) in Al's chart...

l8r)

 

Hiya... the before testing was done with all the aftermarket parts in place. Just as it was originally road tuned. The only thing I did was put back the stock intake and upper IC pipe (since the aftermarket one wouldn't work in the stock airbox) and retune the car.

-shiv

 

Hey guys, I just want you to know that Al has done the same thing in the past. Don't believe everything that comes out of his mouth.

Take a look at this thread:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133178

 

ah, ok. That doesn't paint a pretty picture then at all, does it? Oh well, par for the course, I suppose.

l8r)

 

Well even if the RPM log doesn't show up, im still happy with the end result of thread. The customer spoke, He said he wasn't happy with the first tune /setup, then was happy after a visit with Shiv. Also he is the one that said Al was rude to him (the customer)and Shiv was nice and treated him the way he thought was fair. The customer made the most valuable point of all. He WASN'T happy to start with, this means to me that he didn't like the tune the first day, you know before the "mystery leak". He hadn't come out and said oh the car was fantastic and then started to suck a few days or weeks later.

So he goes to Vishnu gets a tune and now is VERY happy. Whats to be confused about?

 

Warr:you really want prove, do you really want to see those dyno sheets of dynoflash(baseline) Vs. reflash(final)??? It is not a pleasant sight!

My dynoflash has the SAME EXACT timing as stock ecu timing. So what does that mean......you are a smart guy, you can figure that out.

 

I ran 111mph (110.97 to be exact) two years ago with the following mods:
Custom tuned Xede
cam gears
turbo back exhaust WITH CAT
100 octane unleaded
Full weight
NOTHING ELSE.

See for yourself: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=59868

Keep in mind Warr, this was with an '03. No 10.5 hotside, no revised wastegate flapper, no raised rev limiter, stock clutch, etc.

A guy from Texas ran over 112mph on the exact same mods just before me. I remember because I thought I was a hero only to find out I was second fastest in the vishnu camp with those mods.

 

U ended with the Bronze Medal with the 1+s in the prehistoric days.

 

Well, I know from first hand experience the brand X vs. brand Y routine.... Whatever anyone might say or what other people post in praise of X, Y or Z t00ner, tunnnnner or hacker, the proof is as they say, in the pudding....

My situation was very similar to the example first posted by Shiv. My car was modified and t00ned by brands X, Y & Z at various points and times. My poor '03 EVO was a disaster and had all kind of problems in addition to making very poor power for the number of modifications and amount of money spent on it. Now here is the truth:

Dustin and Seth worked all day on my car at Dyno4mance during one if Shiv's tuning weekends. Those 2 guys removed all the crap they could including the intake, AEM EMS, and associated plumbing, wiring, etc. They reinstalled the stock stuff except for the cams, cam gears, injectors, fuel rail, exhaust and aftermarket gauges. Shiv reflashed my stock ECU to scale the big injectors and later when he had time, Andrew at Dyno4mance installed and tuner the XEDE....

The end result was that my car made nearly 300 whp at 19 psi... This is from 259 whp at 23 psi with the garbage road tune by George from Busted Solutions. Of course, that was not the most impressive part. The car regained all it's lost driveability due to the crappy mods/toones of X,Y & Z.

BTW, X, Y & Z all had things to say about the others which were not super nice.... The only thing I know for sure was that Seth, Dustin, Shiv, Andrew and Dyno4mance were able to correct the huge problems my car had and had it making tons more power with less boost.... Unfortunately by the time they stepped in my car had already suffered mechanical damage and the engine had severe blow-by and only had 145~140 lbs of compression.... Even so, they got the car to run great and put down nearly 300 whp at 19 psi on a DD dyno. This is not bull$hit or hype of butt dyno, but real numbers, real results, measured and verified by accurate instruments.

I now drive a '05 MR with just XEDE and a JDM aluminum BOV..... No exhaust, no cams no nothing.... Dyno tuned by Andrew at Dyno4mance: 259 whp on a DD dyno, perfect driveability so far. Everything is just like stock, nice and quiet, smooth, etc. But more power

Peace out

BTW, I did have a boost leak once too.... The car simply would not run......

 

I don't think that's "better." I can go wayyyyyyyyy faster on race gas than on pump gas (at least 3mph/.3s). My accomplishment that you quoted is on straight pump gas and a mail-in flash, no custom tuning. When I ran 99oct with a cat-back/safc/mbc (no cam gears, no DP, no HFC or test pipe), I hit 12.22@111, but was hitting the rev limiter in 4th at the end of every run. Yes, I had an MBC, but no one else's tuning - doesn't the Xede raise boost?

 

No, I can't figure that out. The stock ECU timing is pretty awesome, because we run so rich that there is no pulled timing. It's pretty aggressive from the factory from 5200-7500. Al bumps up the peak torque timing to stay at 7-8 from 3500-5200, which helps with providing a lot more torque. If after raising boost, adding mods, and leaning out the AFRs, a tuner can keep the timing curve as aggressive as stock when completely rich, then that's an accomplishment. What was your point?