Case Study: Road "Tuning" vs Dyno Tuning (Merged)
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Hey Al,
Before I prove you wrong, could you tell me what your logs are showing for AFR? (I can't read anything on that wonderful scan you posted.)
And where is the RPM data?
-shiv
Before I prove you wrong, could you tell me what your logs are showing for AFR? (I can't read anything on that wonderful scan you posted.)
And where is the RPM data?
-shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Jan 5, 2006 at 02:44 AM.
I never dealt with Vishnu in person and I always consider Vishnu products and experience great but to be honest I think this is a clear sign of oportunism from Vishnu.
I mean Cmon, I wasn't there at the road tunning but it is very possible that a boost leak developed.
In the past I have been broke down in the road for a simple TurboXs RFL=H BOV getting stuck open on my WRX.
Another time I replaced the stock UICP with the Buschur racing UICP with 1 Gen BOV and this time I forgot to tighten one of the clamps therefore the pipe joint came loose.
What I am trying to say is that mechanical issues could had developed after and or during the road tunning sesion.
Cmon guys, we know Vishnu is a great tuner and we also know Al is another great tuner but do you guys really believe that Vishu could squeeze 50WHP more than Al in a tunning sesion and using stock parts? ask yourself that, No way in hell !!
I believe this is not fair. There was a problem with the car and it was found after the fact therefore not allwing Al to fairly fix the issue.
Al tunes in the road and does not carry many tools around other than the basic stuff, Vishnu had his lifter and all the time in the world to take his time and achieve his objective.
Switching parts back to original gives you a clue that in the process the problem was solved, good chance it was a loose clamp.
You guys know that a Evo can make 10-15WHP more per pound of boost so that is your answer.
Lets give both parties here the benefit of the doubth.
Carlos
I mean Cmon, I wasn't there at the road tunning but it is very possible that a boost leak developed.
In the past I have been broke down in the road for a simple TurboXs RFL=H BOV getting stuck open on my WRX.
Another time I replaced the stock UICP with the Buschur racing UICP with 1 Gen BOV and this time I forgot to tighten one of the clamps therefore the pipe joint came loose.
What I am trying to say is that mechanical issues could had developed after and or during the road tunning sesion.
Cmon guys, we know Vishnu is a great tuner and we also know Al is another great tuner but do you guys really believe that Vishu could squeeze 50WHP more than Al in a tunning sesion and using stock parts? ask yourself that, No way in hell !!
I believe this is not fair. There was a problem with the car and it was found after the fact therefore not allwing Al to fairly fix the issue.
Al tunes in the road and does not carry many tools around other than the basic stuff, Vishnu had his lifter and all the time in the world to take his time and achieve his objective.
Switching parts back to original gives you a clue that in the process the problem was solved, good chance it was a loose clamp.
You guys know that a Evo can make 10-15WHP more per pound of boost so that is your answer.
Lets give both parties here the benefit of the doubth.
Carlos
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
I never dealt with Vishnu in person and I always consider Vishnu products and experience great but to be honest I think this is a clear sign of oportunism from Vishnu.
I mean Cmon, I wasn't there at the road tunning but it is very possible that a boost leak developed.
In the past I have been broke down in the road for a simple TurboXs RFL=H BOV getting stuck open on my WRX.
Another time I replaced the stock UICP with the Buschur racing UICP with 1 Gen BOV and this time I forgot to tighten one of the clamps therefore the pipe joint came loose.
What I am trying to say is that mechanical issues could had developed after and or during the road tunning sesion.
Cmon guys, we know Vishnu is a great tuner and we also know Al is another great tuner but do you guys really believe that Vishu could squeeze 50WHP more than Al in a tunning sesion and using stock parts? ask yourself that, No way in hell !!
I believe this is not fair. There was a problem with the car and it was found after the fact therefore not allwing Al to fairly fix the issue.
Al tunes in the road and does not carry many tools around other than the basic stuff, Vishnu had his lifter and all the time in the world to take his time and achieve his objective.
Switching parts back to original gives you a clue that in the process the problem was solved, good chance it was a loose clamp.
You guys know that a Evo can make 10-15WHP more per pound of boost so that is your answer.
Lets give both parties here the benefit of the doubth.
Carlos
I mean Cmon, I wasn't there at the road tunning but it is very possible that a boost leak developed.
In the past I have been broke down in the road for a simple TurboXs RFL=H BOV getting stuck open on my WRX.
Another time I replaced the stock UICP with the Buschur racing UICP with 1 Gen BOV and this time I forgot to tighten one of the clamps therefore the pipe joint came loose.
What I am trying to say is that mechanical issues could had developed after and or during the road tunning sesion.
Cmon guys, we know Vishnu is a great tuner and we also know Al is another great tuner but do you guys really believe that Vishu could squeeze 50WHP more than Al in a tunning sesion and using stock parts? ask yourself that, No way in hell !!
I believe this is not fair. There was a problem with the car and it was found after the fact therefore not allwing Al to fairly fix the issue.
Al tunes in the road and does not carry many tools around other than the basic stuff, Vishnu had his lifter and all the time in the world to take his time and achieve his objective.
Switching parts back to original gives you a clue that in the process the problem was solved, good chance it was a loose clamp.
You guys know that a Evo can make 10-15WHP more per pound of boost so that is your answer.
Lets give both parties here the benefit of the doubth.
Carlos
shiv
Shiv,
That sounds fair to me. I am trying to be neutral here, I don't care about what people might say when they read my signature, I am just trying to put this puzzle together because it is very odd what happened.
Peace!!
Carlos
That sounds fair to me. I am trying to be neutral here, I don't care about what people might say when they read my signature, I am just trying to put this puzzle together because it is very odd what happened.
Peace!!
Carlos
Finally to quote Shiv' comments about Buschur Racings's Stage II kit
Can any reader of these forums rationally say that for example a HKS RS Intake 0- which Shiv replaced with the stock air box on this car is "not worth the expense?"
It fits like a glove - is well crafted and desgined and has proven time and time again to make at least 8 - 12 whp pver stock
Similarly - how can he say that the BR upper fmic pipe kit is "fitting poorly" - i have seen how well those fit and thet fit like a glove - its a great product.
Finally the most sick- perverse and despicable low life comment - "don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon thier in house poorly controlled hardly subjective dyno testing methods"
Frankly - I think this is like the POT calling the kettle black
Here shiv has conducted just about the most retarded, biased and inaccurate comparision of my road tune vs his dyno tune - even running totatlly different boost levels to try and give his product the edge.
After engaging in that misleading act of fraud he has the nevere to make a catagorical assertion that aftermarket parts dont work and that the vendors selling them are lying about hos much power they make.
Of course you knew the car had a boost leak and was not running properly - but you did not care - you used the customer to make your big stupid toxic attack.
You say people dont like my services out west Shiv - well Shiv wake up man - I dont think people like you anywhere. I dont think you will find too many customers for a dyno day in Ohio. You are a world class manipulator keep up the great work
Sometimes aftermarket parts aren't worth the expense. Not only do they often fit poorly, rattle and make excessive noise, they are useless unless the system is tuned properly. And even then, don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon their in-house, poorly-controlled, hardly-subjective dyno testing methods.
It fits like a glove - is well crafted and desgined and has proven time and time again to make at least 8 - 12 whp pver stock
Similarly - how can he say that the BR upper fmic pipe kit is "fitting poorly" - i have seen how well those fit and thet fit like a glove - its a great product.
Finally the most sick- perverse and despicable low life comment - "don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon thier in house poorly controlled hardly subjective dyno testing methods"
Frankly - I think this is like the POT calling the kettle black
Here shiv has conducted just about the most retarded, biased and inaccurate comparision of my road tune vs his dyno tune - even running totatlly different boost levels to try and give his product the edge.
After engaging in that misleading act of fraud he has the nevere to make a catagorical assertion that aftermarket parts dont work and that the vendors selling them are lying about hos much power they make.
Of course you knew the car had a boost leak and was not running properly - but you did not care - you used the customer to make your big stupid toxic attack.
You say people dont like my services out west Shiv - well Shiv wake up man - I dont think people like you anywhere. I dont think you will find too many customers for a dyno day in Ohio. You are a world class manipulator keep up the great work
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Hey Al,
Before I prove you wrong, could you tell me what your logs are showing for AFR? (I can't read anything on that wonderful scan you posted.)
And where is the RPM data?
-shiv
Before I prove you wrong, could you tell me what your logs are showing for AFR? (I can't read anything on that wonderful scan you posted.)
And where is the RPM data?
-shiv
I think we'll call it Shiv's ole boost and switch manover in the future.
My man - if you cant make more power than me with 4 more psi of boost then something is wrong with you.
The only thing you have proved today is that you are still the same miserable, nasty, toxic human cesspool that you were a few years ago.
Its been quiet on these forums lately, maybe now that you had your big soap opera moment in the sun you can ooze back under your rock and play with that it is you guys do over there in shiv land.
Its a shame that these kind of tuner attack threads still exisit. Its a huge waste of time to respond to these kind of groundless attacks and I am already way too busy trying to keep up with work never mind speding time responding to Shiv's attacks.
Last edited by DynoFlash; Jan 5, 2006 at 02:51 AM.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Will you just answer the questions? I don't think anyone can read that log. I will highlight the questions in Red to make it easier for you to see them. Look at post #50 
shiv
shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Jan 5, 2006 at 02:47 AM.
Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
lol.. no names of parts, nor did he try to sell any of his "crappy" parts.. all he did was give the guy a better tune, with more power, less noise, and his car still looks BONE STOCK, i bet the customer is real pissed about that.
I really like how Shiv never mentioned the following, however has still be labeled as "toxic"
#1- vendors selling X brand parts are lying about the power they are making
#2- That BR parts have poor fitment and craftminship
#3-That this is some personal attack on Al or BR
(I have 0 parts from BR or Vishnu)
Last edited by Doogie Howser; Jan 5, 2006 at 03:00 AM.
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Will you just answer the questions? I don't think anyone can read that log. I will highlight the questions in Red to make it easier for you to see them. Look at post #50
shiv
shiv
I dont mind it when you try and attack me - but when you start attacking Buschur Parts - I get really upset. I know how hard those guys at Buschur work on ther stuff and it pains me to see people take cheap shots at that gear.
I am not in the mood to re-scan the chart again on a better resolution - I will get to it tomorrow.
Seriously guys, IMHO, a tuner without a dyno = a doctor w/o a stethoscope....the most basic of equipment. If accelerometers work that well, you think MD, DD, DJ...will still be in business?
Originally Posted by Doogie Howser
Interesting how Al keeps on tossing the word Buschur around like a hot potato.
I really like how Shiv mentioned that vendors selling X brand parts are lying about the power they are making, and somehow I guess his fradulent claims are serious crimes to humanity, o wait Shiv never said anything of the sorts.
I really like how Shiv mentioned that vendors selling X brand parts are lying about the power they are making, and somehow I guess his fradulent claims are serious crimes to humanity, o wait Shiv never said anything of the sorts.
Deep Thoughts/Conclusions
-Sometimes aftermarket parts aren't worth the expense. Not only do they often fit poorly, rattle and make excessive noise, they are useless unless the system is tuned properly. And even then, don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon their in-house, poorly-controlled, hardly-subjective dyno testing methods
-Sometimes aftermarket parts aren't worth the expense. Not only do they often fit poorly, rattle and make excessive noise, they are useless unless the system is tuned properly. And even then, don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon their in-house, poorly-controlled, hardly-subjective dyno testing methods
This bothers me becuase I know the great effort that David Buschur makes to test parts and report fully accurate results.
It really further infuriates me as this very post is an example os exactly what Shiv was complaining about - a biased inaccurate dyno test
Lets go back to basic guys, pure logical brain, how many of you are running MBC and actually made less power or felt slower?
How many of you installed HKS RS filter and made less power or felt slower? and last but not least, how many of you actually installed a Upper Intercooler pipe and haven't noticed any improvement?
C'mon, I am not a rocket engineer but this topic somehow does not make sense. there are a few things that indicates that perhaps a boost leak was present.
How can soemone explain that the stock parts are capable of making more power under same conditions?,
You see where I am coming from?
How many of you installed HKS RS filter and made less power or felt slower? and last but not least, how many of you actually installed a Upper Intercooler pipe and haven't noticed any improvement?
C'mon, I am not a rocket engineer but this topic somehow does not make sense. there are a few things that indicates that perhaps a boost leak was present.
How can soemone explain that the stock parts are capable of making more power under same conditions?,
You see where I am coming from?
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
This is what Shiv said that I found most insulting :
To me what hs is saying is that the parts from that car were the subject of these poorly controled dyno testing methods and not to see as big a gain - this is the part I find very insulting.
This bothers me becuase I know the great effort that David Buschur makes to test parts and report fully accurate results.
It really further infuriates me as this very post is an example os exactly what Shiv was complaining about - a biased inaccurate dyno test
To me what hs is saying is that the parts from that car were the subject of these poorly controled dyno testing methods and not to see as big a gain - this is the part I find very insulting.
This bothers me becuase I know the great effort that David Buschur makes to test parts and report fully accurate results.
It really further infuriates me as this very post is an example os exactly what Shiv was complaining about - a biased inaccurate dyno test