Wartalon-- Please see post #344. I'm more than happy to participate in a shootout. Please don't try to start a fight here. Furthermore, I find it strange that you are reporting so many posts to moderators (I get the messages too!) but fail to ever report the ones where your tuner is insulting others.

 

First of all, thanks for the $20

Second of all, can we get back to talking about this challenge? I'm game to participate. Just for simplicity reason, I'm more partial to doing it on a normal roller dyno (Mustang, for instance) than on a Dynapack where we'd have to unbolt the wheels and such. Do you agree? If so, it looks like we have either Full Function or Gruppe-S as possible venues. Any preference?

And Third, could you please post up run #1 of Az3ar's car? It's been eight months now and you said you would. Pretty please?

Shiv

 

This thread hasn't died yet?

 

See, now if this had been posted initially, then I'm sure at least 50% of the ensuing hoopla could have been eliminated.

IMO one of the main drawbacks to road tuning is the fact that you are not in a controlled environment. It is too easy to get distracted, angry, irritated, etc. - all of which can throw off the tune. Of course, when tuning on the road, the resulting, less-than-optimal performance may not be noticed right away, whereas on a dyno it would be blatantly apparent.

I once asked a very reputable tuner (name omitted) as to their preference for road tuning vs. dyno tuning (they offered both), and was told that they ALWAYS preferred dyno tuning. Personally I think the issue of road tuning vs. dyno tuning has been answered fairly succinctly by now. Hopefully more data will be collected on road tuned vs. dyno tuned cars, but I'm pretty sure that the results will show a much smaller variance between dyno tuned cars versus a larger variance in road tuned cars.

l8r)

P.S.: Another 20 bucks says that the Shiv/Al showdown is not going to happen because Al will find a reason not to go.

 

Fair enough and you deserve a thoughtful answer.

Moderator hat off..............


As some of you know, I'm an old dude. (I have diseases older than most of you.) And my comments are for the members who have been here for 1 year or more; so I'm going to ask the newbies to cover their ears. IMHO the underlying gamesmanship associated with this thread follows the well established "Law of Minimum Astonishment". It is not an honest discussion under the surface but designed to illicit exactly the responses you see from principals involved. Are you surprised? Who here does not know how the challenge will end and how this thread will end?

Am I biased? Absolutely! I'm for the membership of this site who can't get a straight answer to fundamental questions because of rude post and vendor gamesmanship. I'm for the membership of this site whose intelligence and reasoning is constantly underestimated by some of the vendors here. This thread is a classic example. I realize this is serious business for the vendors but am constantly disappointed at the willingness to publicly engage a competitor. It is a lose lose contest.

And finally I'm for the New England Patriots 3 - peating because Tom Brady is the most under-rated QB in the history of the NFL. (And I'm a Eagles fan!).

Moderator hat back on.........

If you want to continue this with me, please PM me. Thanks.

Speedlimit....

 

When I talk about the weather, etc I am explaining why I may not have been in the best of moods after traveling all night the evening before

As fas as the tune - it was dead on and no error involved

The reason why I use data logging is becuase it catches errors

I guarante you I log more data that 99% of the dyno tuners out there

 

Sorry if you felt my statement was targeted at you, but my second paragraph was meant as a statement in general, not specifically aimed at anyone.

However, statements such as "I guarantee you I log more data than 99% of the dyno tuners out there" really do take away from your credibility. Unless you can back up that kind of claim with facts, why make it? Especially when you are apparently not logging rpm.

l8r)

P.S.: Shiv, did you ever get a chance to print out the dyno charts I asked about in an earlier post in this thread?

 

Dead on without useful MiVEC manipulation? Or am I wrong there?

-Shiv nutswinger #3

 

I already spent 3 days on Buschur's Mustang Dyno and 2 days at Pruven on MIVEC adjustment and set up for the BR350 cars - there is no need to revisit the MIVEC for 10 hours every time you tune a car with the same mods

Sure when you have a totally new car set up - eg add cams or change the mods you may need to go over the MIVEC but on cars with identical mods ordinarily you would not alter the MIVEC startegy you have already developed with hours of dyno R & D

My use of dynos is to make very good base maps which are then fine tuned and adjusted for indivivdual vehicle variation and customer preference

Most of my mail in flashes are very close without tuning - tuning on the road is only the FINE tuning

Its not like we are setting up a new stand slone ecu system each time I do a road tune reflash

 

Shiv - why the fixation with Run # 1 ?

 

Regardg the IX, my fixation with run #1 is because both his boost curve and yours were practically identical. However, your tune was extremely tepid in the midrange. You keep claiming "boost leak", but the boost values are the same. Yet, the torque on your run was much softer with the same boost.

Hence, I think your MiVEC tables for your "base flash" really need some work to be as nice as Shiv's "base flash" that he started with on run #1 with the same boost.

Get it yet? Same boost, your car doesn't make anywhere near the torque, what's wrong?

-Shiv nutswinger #3

PS: Sorry for all the emphasis above, but I'm hoping you'll actually answer the question this time.

 

I was asking about run #1 fixation from last year witrh Az3ar

The reason why the car did not make any power MIVEC car in this thread was becuase when Shiv removed and replaced the original parts no doubt the boost leak or other condition was also repaired which was effecting the tq

So to reiterate - shiv's "base flash" on this car was with a new and different mod package and after wrenching the car. He did not change the tune and try to improve the power through tuning alone.

 

Sorry about the Az3ar confusion. I corrected it above.

I still don't think you are listening, though. Even if there was a boost leak (which I don't think there was based on the shape of the a:f curve), your "leak" and his start run have the same boost. Why is your power so much lower at the same boost level?

 

I suppose you would have to if you are not using a dyno

 

Please answer the above questions Al.

Thanks,
shiv