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Case Study: Road "Tuning" vs Dyno Tuning (Merged)

 
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Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:26 AM
  #301  
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From: Long Island, NY
Originally Posted by AutoXer
Wouldn't a BOV leak cause this same sort of overworking of the turbo, leading to extra heat and therefore knock. The only exception would be that the AFRs would not be off since you'd be leaking back into the intake tract after the MAS and before the turbo. I'd even bet that it would cause the MAS to behave a little eraticly. Thoughts?
Yes, it would, but I don't think it's applicable for two reasons:

1) Al usually crushes the 1G when he tunes cars that have it, and
2) If they switched back to the stock BOV, then it would have been as weak, if not weaker than the 1G.

So, unless the 1G happened to fall apart internally between the road tune and the dyno tune, then I don't think it's a point of concern.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:27 AM
  #302  
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Originally Posted by AutoXer
First, thanks for answering!

What data shows this? A leaky BOV would not cause the AFRs to be off by much, if any at all. Are you basing this off of what you heard with your ears. How about I ask the question slightly different.

How would a tuner know that a BOV is leaking(assume it hooked up to recirc)? What are the tale-tale signs?
A leaky BOV would cause inconsistent and erratic performance.

shiv
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:29 AM
  #303  
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And what is this about a shootout?

shiv
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:42 AM
  #304  
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
It is always possible that the car may have been in limp mode when it was originally tested

I am only suggesting a boost leak as there is no way the car falls 3 psi of boost lower than when I tuned it without some mechanical issue arsing

I have tuned more evos than anyone and my tunes do not have 35 - 40 less tq than whp - just not the way it comes out unless there is some mechanical defect

Rather than leaving all parts in place and changing the tune - SHIV elected to change the parts and the tune first so we will never really know just what the cause of the condition was

Last edited by DynoFlash; Jan 10, 2006 at 10:45 AM.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:46 AM
  #305  
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by Event-Horizon
I think what Al fails to realize that that Shiv's tune made more power with his tuning stratagies with MIVEC and not just boost alone. The Evo IX is a completely different animal. What may have worked well for an Evo VIII does not carry over well to the IX. Boost alone cannot account for that much mid range power.
This is why to this date I have tuned the highest WHP evo IX of any tuner thus far
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:50 AM
  #306  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
This is why to this date I have tuned the highest WHP evo IX of any tuner thus far
What is the highest wheel hp IX and was he tuned on a dyno or on the road and then dynoed?
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:56 AM
  #307  
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Limp mode? More EVO tunes than anyone? Highest WHP of any EVO IX? Massive Boost on 91oct? The list goes on....

Al- Reality is a cool place. Visit it sometime

shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Jan 10, 2006 at 10:58 AM.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:56 AM
  #308  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Rather than leaving all parts in place and changing the tune - SHIV elected to change the parts and the tune first so we will never really know just what the cause of the condition was
Al, you've done the exact same thing before. Dont try to act better than anyone else.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 10:59 AM
  #309  
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
OK it seems that Shiv is NOT interested in taking the car to a dyno to have his work tested and verified to see how that high boost is faring and how much timing is now being pulled

Secondly - it seems he is not interested in having me re-install the parts and verify that all mechanical aspects of boost are correct and re-tuning the car

It seems that you ARM CHAIR quarterbacks would rather pontificate and speculate about theory and fantasy

I am not going to waste any more time with you guys - it seems reality and facts have little import

Just for my two cents . . . . . . .

The car came in with some unspecified problem - (I diagnose a boost leak) - however its pure conjecture. I road tuned the car and did 20 or so passes and the boost was holding well through the end of the pulls at 7800 rpms

(An aside - I do not log rpms in a Evo IX at this point as I am having a harness built to do that function as I have on the Evo 8) You can tell it was a full pull by the seconds it took to go through 3rd gear which remains fairly constant from car to car with similar mods. The boost was not falling down significantly.

Anyone who has a Stage II car knows you dont run them with a MBC falling to 16 psi of boost and if it is falling to 16 psi of boost and it was tuned fror 19 psi that is going to throw off the tune

Furthermore - the condition causing the boost leak would also have a negative effect on power - possible resulting in greater back pressure and knock as the wastegate would be 100% closed at all times

These are all basic theories of tuning but in your hatred and jealousy against me you are blinded to reality in any possible opportunity to bash me and prove Shiv is the better tuner

The way to test a tune - leave all parts alone - change the tune - then you have a A- B comparsion

By changing the parts on the car and then testing you may have corrected the problem which was the main root of the defect

Of course comming from a vendor so filled with hatred and negative toxic motivations towards me that he would waste his time offering $25 dyno sessions to lure in more people to test under these highly unproessional conditions I would expect nothing less than a totally scewed result

You wont see me offering any reduced price services to test the cars tuned by others tuners as at least 50% of my customers here on any given day are already here after having tried out some other tuning product - its not a big deal

My business is tstrong enough I dont have to waste my time to attack others - the customers already know who is doing what

For those who have drawn the conclusion that the results of this stunt reveal that Shiv has some secret MIVEC methods - you are very deluded

Thanks and carry on - I guess me and David wont be going to CA after all
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:01 AM
  #310  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
OK it seems that Shiv is NOT interested in taking the car to a dyno to have his work tested and verified to see how that high boost is faring and how much timing is now being pulled

Secondly - it seems he is not interested in having me re-install the parts and verify that all mechanical aspects of boost are correct and re-tuning the car

It seems that you ARM CHAIR quarterbacks would rather pontificate and speculate about theory and fantasy

I am not going to waste any more time with you guys - it seems reality and facts have little import

Just for my two cents . . . . . . .

The car came in with some unspecified problem - (I diagnose a boost leak) - however its pure conjecture. I road tuned the car and did 20 or so passes and the boost was holding well through the end of the pulls at 7800 rpms

(An aside - I do not log rpms in a Evo IX at this point as I am having a harness built to do that function as I have on the Evo 8) You can tell it was a full pull by the seconds it took to go through 3rd gear which remains fairly constant from car to car with similar mods. The boost was not falling down significantly.

Anyone who has a Stage II car knows you dont run them with a MBC falling to 16 psi of boost and if it is falling to 16 psi of boost and it was tuned fror 19 psi that is going to throw off the tune

Furthermore - the condition causing the boost leak would also have a negative effect on power - possible resulting in greater back pressure and knock as the wastegate would be 100% closed at all times

These are all basic theories of tuning but in your hatred and jealousy against me you are blinded to reality in any possible opportunity to bash me and prove Shiv is the better tuner

The way to test a tune - leave all parts alone - change the tune - then you have a A- B comparsion

By changing the parts on the car and then testing you may have corrected the problem which was the main root of the defect

Of course comming from a vendor so filled with hatred and negative toxic motivations towards me that he would waste his time offering $25 dyno sessions to lure in more people to test under these highly unproessional conditions I would expect nothing less than a totally scewed result

You wont see me offering any reduced price services to test the cars tuned by others tuners as at least 50% of my customers here on any given day are already here after having tried out some other tuning product - its not a big deal

My business is tstrong enough I dont have to waste my time to attack others - the customers already know who is doing what

For those who have drawn the conclusion that the results of this stunt reveal that Shiv has some secret MIVEC methods - you are very deluded

Thanks and carry on - I guess me and David wont be going to CA after all
Where did I say that I'm not interested in what you and Dave are proposing? Seriously Al, you need help.

-shiv

PS. Are we going to bear witness to the now famous Dynoflash rant where you do 6-10 posts in a row, each one more outlandish than the previous one?

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Jan 10, 2006 at 11:06 AM.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:02 AM
  #311  
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by NoTec
What is the highest wheel hp IX and was he tuned on a dyno or on the road and then dynoed?
Interesting you should ask that as I am going to tune an even higher one on the street today and then put it oin a dyno to test it just to deal with this type of inquiry

It should have plenty of power
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:05 AM
  #312  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Interesting you should ask that as I am going to tune an even higher one on the street today and then put it oin a dyno to test it just to deal with this type of inquiry

It should have plenty of power
OH BOY!!! Will you dyno it on a SUPER COOL DynoJet, so it will have really good numbers that we can all ROFFLE at?

I guess you'll show us not to question your toons anymore huh?
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:05 AM
  #313  
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From: 2003 Evo VIII - Silver
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Where did I say that I'm not interested in having my work tested? Am I on crazy pills?
I issued a direct challenge - you side tracked and talked more trash

I done dealing with you - it was a mistake to even post in here as obviously you are only interested in playing games

I am going to forward my tuning files to Merv at Ecutek in the Uk from this car along with my flashevo.log data and ask him to render an opinion on the quality of my tuning on this car as it was a Ecutek product and I am mereley a dealer as are you. Rather than play games with you who is obviously biased and trying to promote yourself at others expense I will let Ecutek handle this matter going forward as they are obviously in a better position to review the maps and make a decsion about what if anything was wrong with my tuning.
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:08 AM
  #314  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I am going to forward my tuning files to Merv at Ecutek in the Uk from this car along with my flashevo.log data and ask him to render an opinion on the quality of my tuning on this car as it was a Ecutek product and I am mereley a dealer as are you. Rather than play games with you who is obviously biased and trying to promote yourself at others expense I will let Ecutek handle this matter going forward as they are obviously in a better position to review the maps and make a decsion about what if anything was wrong with my tuning.
Why not post them here Al? Why get a third party involved? We've ask data from you several times that you have yet to provide. I think there are plenty of people here that can tell if anything was wrong with your tune. If you feel so strongly that nothing was wrong with the car, but was a mechnical issue, what is there to hide?
Old Jan 10, 2006 | 11:12 AM
  #315  
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
OK it seems that Shiv is NOT interested in taking the car to a dyno to have his work tested and verified to see how that high boost is faring and how much timing is now being pulled

Secondly - it seems he is not interested in having me re-install the parts and verify that all mechanical aspects of boost are correct and re-tuning the car

It seems that you ARM CHAIR quarterbacks would rather pontificate and speculate about theory and fantasy

I am not going to waste any more time with you guys - it seems reality and facts have little import

Just for my two cents . . . . . . .

The car came in with some unspecified problem - (I diagnose a boost leak) - however its pure conjecture. I road tuned the car and did 20 or so passes and the boost was holding well through the end of the pulls at 7800 rpms

(An aside - I do not log rpms in a Evo IX at this point as I am having a harness built to do that function as I have on the Evo 8) You can tell it was a full pull by the seconds it took to go through 3rd gear which remains fairly constant from car to car with similar mods. The boost was not falling down significantly.

Anyone who has a Stage II car knows you dont run them with a MBC falling to 16 psi of boost and if it is falling to 16 psi of boost and it was tuned fror 19 psi that is going to throw off the tune

Furthermore - the condition causing the boost leak would also have a negative effect on power - possible resulting in greater back pressure and knock as the wastegate would be 100% closed at all times

These are all basic theories of tuning but in your hatred and jealousy against me you are blinded to reality in any possible opportunity to bash me and prove Shiv is the better tuner

The way to test a tune - leave all parts alone - change the tune - then you have a A- B comparsion

By changing the parts on the car and then testing you may have corrected the problem which was the main root of the defect

Of course comming from a vendor so filled with hatred and negative toxic motivations towards me that he would waste his time offering $25 dyno sessions to lure in more people to test under these highly unproessional conditions I would expect nothing less than a totally scewed result

You wont see me offering any reduced price services to test the cars tuned by others tuners as at least 50% of my customers here on any given day are already here after having tried out some other tuning product - its not a big deal

My business is tstrong enough I dont have to waste my time to attack others - the customers already know who is doing what

For those who have drawn the conclusion that the results of this stunt reveal that Shiv has some secret MIVEC methods - you are very deluded

Thanks and carry on - I guess me and David wont be going to CA after all
We armchair quaterbacks are pontificating and speculating about the truth!!! And nothing more. We the customer are asking questions form you the tuner. When you have time, please feel free to answer them as we armchair quaterbacks cant flash our own cars and need tuning guidance. I took no sides but you shoot insults. Who was that statement directed at? I'm seeing an insulting trend here! Back on topic.And it would be nice to know if that highest whp IX was dyno tuned or road tuned.



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