I know that in the Engine Turbo Drivetrain forum Shiv posted an "Not-so-Official Evo 9 Tuning Thread" where he shows repeated dyno plots showing the results of his MIVEC manipulation, the increased boost response, and the increase in midrange torque.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...2&postcount=97

Also, if MIVEC is disabled, do you see the total loss of midrange power? If Al disables MIVEC in his IX tuning, the power plot would look a lot like this guys results. I don't know what Shiv or Al does to MIVEC, they keep that type of info secret....

The post is completely valid, and if I didn't have "Vishnu" in my signature you wouldn't have called me out as a "groupie".

Furthermore, what does me owning a IX have to do with anything???

- Steve

P.S. - I'm not bitter.

 

I am not making that as a Shiv superiority comment, and my response was valid, for it's validity, see my above post in response to the newbie that called me out.

And from the looks of the dyno plot in the thread I referenced, a disabled MIVEC WOULD result in the dramatic loss of midrange torque.

Everyone is so hung up on the boost leak issue. What if the Eprom burned wrong and killed the MIVEC table, I don't know how ECUtek works.... That would also explain the dramatic loss in midrange power.

Yea, I'm not particularly fond of Al right now after calling me names, but I'm not bashing him, I worded things in a vindictive manner and for that I'm guilty, but also not sorry, because according to Al I'm just a "clown". He doesn't deserve much more than that level of a response from me anymore.

In the end, I'm looking for answers.

- Steve

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer ... I meant to say load-bearing dyno (not inertial). Although I will say that tunes on my car from both Vishnu and AMS were spot-on when taken from a DynoJet to the road.

l8r)

 

As a very simple test of this theory - I used the SAME exact MIVEC map in that I made for the CA that is the subject of this thread

You will notice there is no impairment of TQ in this case using the same map

 

I am going to test that theory also today with a STOCK MIVEC map vs a zeroed out MIVEC MAP vs MY MIVEC MAP on this same car

Theories are only theories until they are tested

In this case the "theory" is only an attempt to "scare" some business Shiv's way by claiming he has some secret setting or skill the rest of the ecutek tuner's lack with respect to MIVEC.

 

The funny part of this as many Vishnuites will attest is that Shiv used to do many dyno days in the NE on either Pruven or TT's dyno jet dyno and I have heard that in many cases he would tune 12 or 13 cars in a 12 hour period. This includes time for strapping and unspraping each car.

From my reports - his tuning consisted only of full throttle WOT operation on those dynos.

Lately he has moved to Tuning Technology in LA where he conducted a similar marathon session

The vision of someone taking 4 or 5 hours to map each cell of your timing map on a dyno is a interesting concept - however - not only is such an activity totally NOT NEEDED when reflashing a stock ecu on a car with similar mods to a base calibration you have already done R & D work on a dyno for - we see that it is not the reality of what Shiv offers his customers when he conducts his so called dyno days

When i started this - I realized that going to strange dyno shops with unknown dynos was most useless for getting a good tuned car

I would rather spend a full 2 hours operating the car in a real world condition under varying terrain to make sure the car is working perfectly.

I do not really think there is a right answer or a wrong answer on this subject - bothe methods have positives and negatives. Obviously a 4 - 5 hour combination road and dyno tune would be the best solution but economically that kind of service is unneeded - IMHO.

Most of the Vishnu haters here fail to realize that i do dyno R & D all week long at my home shop and then fly out and do road tuning just about every weekend. I feel the combination of the two gives me the experience and insight to develop excelent through the mail tunes which are the staple of my business.

The main thrust - my RELIABILITY record is unmatched - I have zero tuning related engine failures to my credit of which i am aware and a really HUGE amount of tuned evos out there.

 

It is impossible to burn a chip wrong on ecutek

The MIVEC being set to all ZERO would not account for the low TQ that Shiv reported and I will test and confirm this for you

 

Here is a perfect example

How can Vishnu do a dyno day on an inferior non loading Dyno Jet dyno in NJ ?

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=178510

I would like an answer to that question ?

(Maybe he is doing the same thing I am doing when I tune on Dyno Jet?)

 

What is this graph showing?

 

WOW... once again, great comparison Al. This tells us absolutly NOTHING as the car when from stock to a 2.3L stroker motor.

Please read:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=178448

 

How and why did you do Dyno days on Dynojets if you feel they are so inferior now? You still continue to use the one at proven. Does this have something to do with the fact that turbotrix hosts Vishnu DynoDays? You talk smack about the DynoDynamic Dyno's, or "moon" dyno's as you call them. They are far superior to anything you use. Such a Hypocrite!

 

I don't think the question is whether one can tune on a Dynojet. It's whether the Dynojet is a better tune device than a load bearing dyno. And the answer, obviously, is no. However, 95% of all our testing and map development is done on our DD Dyno. Right down to cell-by-cell MIVEC mapping. All of which transfers right over to the work we do on a Dynojet. So no, you don't need to tune on a load bearing dyno in order to see the benefits of having used a load bearing dyno during the map development process. In fact I mostly conduct inertial-style pulls with our DD dyno when tuning cars. This is because we've gotten to a point where partial throttle performance is already mapped the way I want it, leaving only WOT tuning which will vary from car to car and octane to octane (and require a dyno to dial in).

The only time a wrench is thrown in the works is when we see a non-standard car that hads larger than an usual injectors size, or an usual cam profile, or a built motor, etc,. When situations like that arise, a load bearing dyno becomes very useful, allowing me to map the car in a matter of 1-2 hours. Whereas getting similar results on a Dynojet would take 5-6 hrs which few would be willing to commit to. And road tuning, like tuning on a Dynojet, would also be nearly time inefficient. Customers typically don't like it when i ride the brakes for minutes on end. Neither do the brake pads. Or surrounding traffic, for that matter. And without a repeatible and stable torque readings, it's virtually impossible to know that your previous mapping change helped or hurt. And since tuning is all about making consecutive changes based upon the result of the one right before it, it's going to the be a hit or miss process in the long right. Might hit the nail on the head sometimes. But there will always be jobs left that could have been done better if better tools were at ones disposal.

Remember Al, myself and others have been road tuning cars back when you were still a personal injury laywer. You didn't invent itt. And logging Gs, boost and wideband isn't useful unless all of the data is 100% reliable and accurate. If one is questionable, the problem cannot be solved with 100% accuracy. It's like being colorblind and trying to solve a Rubics Cube. Sure, you can see shades and think you solved the problem. But sometimes your eyes can decieve you.

Please don't respond back with 6 consecutive posts. Try to organize your thoughts in one post and make life easier for the rest of us, okay?

thanks,
shiv

And Az3ar-- You're behaving like a scorned ex-girlfriend. I'm tempted to post up some of your PMs to me. Geez.. .some people are wierd.

 

How of man are you to keep deleting posts??? like always Shivy afraid from the truth


Post pms and I will post yours kissing my @ss. btw I got all my money from you why should I be worried lol

 

You comments were off topic. The installation of your head gasket has nothing to do with this thread. But then that really isn't that important to you is it?

Read my signature when you get back from a 3 day timeout. Have a nice day. Thanks.

Speedlimit...

 

After comparing VIII to IX dyno numbers from both tuners.

It appears to me that Shiv makes more power in the lower rpm's but the tq falls off at the higher rpms like the VIII did

Al seems to make the same low rpm power but his tq curve holds much flatter

Both would be a result of different stratagies of mivec tuning correct?

OFF Topic - Al used to be a lawyer?