So then why would a company that already has proven themself's get one
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...highlight=dyno
to make money for that company?

You spend more time on the dyno than on the street and still claim that street is better. I am not sure but it just doesn't make that much sense to me

 

Its like an abortion fanatic - pro choice - or anti abortion - no matter how much you reason with them they will continue to rant in a toxic manner the same mantra of one sided hatred. You Vishnuites seem to be just as lost in the leaves of the Vishnu tree to even listen to any one else's opinion or point of view.

When Az3ar tried to post his view point in this thread it is immeditely deleted and his account suspeneded and yet when some Vishnu loyalist wants to call me a liar or other insults such remarks are accepted as the gospil.

The reality is that Vishnu has a long, long list of some very disappointed and angry former customers most of whom are silenced and deleted

This forum is a most one sided and censored arena

In any event - I think YOU and SHIV are the ones who refuse to ANSWER MY QUESTIONS

- Mainly

#1 - Is the tuner who makes the most WHP possible on a dyno the "best" tuner?

#2 - What makes for a good tune ?

and

#3 - Why does detune the stock evo to such a significant extent ?

When you haters will take time to discuss these imporant topics then maybe we can continue a reasoned discussion

Until then we just have rhetoric and unproven allegations by a bunch of lemmings

 

Also post#16 in this thread https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...highlight=dyno
in short this is what was said
"I always road test cars after I dyno tune them and it was so close that usually nothing needed to be changed"

Being that they very reputable. I think I would prefer to be dyno tuned and usually have nothing changed than to get road tuned and have to make minor changes on the dyno.

just my .02 though

 

Well Jeff, after Al decided that the car had "bad gas", he suggested adding octane booster to the tank to solve the "problem".... I'm not the expert, never claimed to be. That's why I organized the visit of Al and his Dynoflash system to Atlanta to custom tune my car and others as well..

No, I don't think it's just you.... I too had serious doubts about the whole process but I trusted the wisdom amd opinions of people who post in these forums as knowledgeable experts... Please read through this and many other topics and you'll read a lot of posts in support of this system of tuning cars....
I have learned over time that for me, this road tuning is not what I want. I don't feel comfortable with the method and I cannot trust the results until they are verified.... On a dynamometer..... So, why would I spend the time and money to have dyno runs of my car before and after a road tune? Why not just have the damned thing tuned on the chassis dyno to begin with?... Oh yeah, I'm sure some "racers" road tune their cars, etc. But the racers I know and talk with always talk of their engines being built and tuned on an Engine Dyno.... That's righ, not even a chassis dyno, but an engine dyno. I wonder why that is?

 

I have been working on the dyno here at Pruven for 4 long years on nearly a daily basis

I know it very well and I can tune a car almost by sound of my ear on that dyno

After I tune each car I still must road test them to verify that everything is proper

A dyno number is feairly meaningless if the car does not run as well when it hits the road

The bottom line reality is that a decent chassis dyno can be used to properly tune a car if you have experience with that dyno and know HOW to use it to repliacte real world loading conditions

Also - if you know what you are doing you can tune cars on a road - if you pick the road properly and know how to log and what to look for

My point is that either method can be used to achive a very good result in the hands of a good tuner

MY QUESTION

What constitutes a "good tune" remains on the table for discussison

 

To address this side topic of fuel quality

When we OCCASSIONALLY see a car that has more knock than normally expected - one of the ways to diagnose what is the cause is to change the fuel or add octane booster which marginally raises the octane by a few points (the .0 part)

If adding some octane has an immediate effect on the situation then it is resonable to suspect a bad tank of gas

Example - in DYNO tuning a BR330 IX car last month it seemed very knock prone

No matter what we did it would knock

After some investigation it was discovered that the service tech from the dealership who did the PDI on the car had put in $10.00 of 87 octane fuel at the pump when road testing the car

Changing the fuel eliminated the knock issue

As a tuner - dyno or road - it does not matter

IF the car has poor fuel and you see knock which is beyond normal levels the fuel must be tested and ruled out as a possible cause

Lucikly this type of problem is a rare condition but it has happend

BTW - COSTCO is the worst - qucik trip is not so great either

 

Exactly the tune is only as good as the tuner whether it be dyno or street tune. Ive stopped harassing Shiv a few days ago and Im still seeing stupid *** threads, even though they are Shiv fans they should also be deleted. Its funny because I know Shiv will delete a post that is marked reported if its against him, but when I report an unnapropriate post that a shiv fan posted it doesnt get touched.

 

If this forum is so heavily censored, why do you think your posts are still here? And why you are the source of 90% off all the reported posts in this thread?. And please don't insult our intelligence by suggesting that you are trying to strike up a meaningful conversation while at the same time calling people "Vishnuites", "Clowns", "haters" and so forth. It's really in poor taste. Your only goal here is to get the last word in and confuse the issue enough so that people don't actually read everything you write. Because if they did, it would paint a picture that you probably don't want them to see. Now please, post up the info that we've been asking of you for the last few days and stop with your disingenuous questioning motives. You are so far out of your league on this forum that it's almost painful trying to see you play in the deep side of the swimming pool. Please post up that info or just keep quiet. My God, you are irritating.

-shiv

 

Jim,
Nearly ALL of the reported posts on this thread have been between you and Al. So please give it a rest.
-shiv

 

#1 - Sometimes. If the customer wants every pony extracted and doesn't care about reliability, then yes. If the customer wants better performance, but doesn't want to run on the ragged edge, then no.

#2 - A good tune is one that performs as expected and makes the customer happy. The answer to this question is subjective, so you get a vague answer.

#3 - The same reasons almost every manufacturer doesn't sell cars with the highest performing tune. Reliability, emissions, gas milage standards that they want to achieve, and the cars(some built outside the US) need to perform in all conditions, climates, elevations that the world offers. Remember the 04 STi and the pinging problems on cali 91 oct? The original factory tune was not detuned enough for all situations and it caused Subaru a black eye.

You want definitive answers to mostly subjective questions. What is "best" and what is "good" are subjective. Doesn't matter if its tuning methods, Evo v STi, softball bats, running shoes, etc.

 

IMO: The best tune is one that allows for the most possible horsepower based on safe levels of boost, timing, and air/fuel ratio. When I say, "most horsepower" I do not mean peak numbers, but also the numbers in the mid range. I would gladly take an Evo with 30-40 more whp over an Evo that had just 20-30 peak whp. I also feel that a tune is good if it can be done without the need of expesive aftermarket parts. I like to keep things simple, and if it isnt broke, why replace it?

It doesnt matter how smooth or powerful it feels, its what the dyno and the logged data are telling you how the car is performing. This is exactly what people run into with road tuning. They get this "feeling" and "hype" that the car is "smooth" and "pulling strong". Those terms are very subjective to both the tuner and the customer. What may feel strong to you may not feel strong to someone else. However, when they put their car on the dyno to have this "feeling" quantified into acctual numbers and facts they are brought into the real world. Sometimes its good, and sometimes its bad, but at least they finally have an idea of what they paid for.

I think that brings up a good point. How can you justifiy the price of a tune without knowing any real numbers? How does the customer know when to feel good about the purchase he just made? I for one would not buy a product based on words of "smooth" and "pulls hard". The customer will have really no idea whats going on in the tuning process to feel satisfied with the tune. Whereas with a dyno they can see real numbers in real time. They can ask, "hey, why did my car just make 20whp less than the last pull?" They will be able to see numerous before and after dyno charts along with the tuner. I think with the ability of the dyno to say your car made "X" before and makes "Y" after will give the customer satisfaction his money went to a good cause.

 

off topic but....i'll post anyways.
OK, i just saw a quote in some random person's signiture , it was allegedly from Mr. Shiv Pathek (sp??)
apparently he no longer likes DSMs???
The DSM was a crappy car?? are you kidding me??


I'm speachless.......
please tell me with quote is false,,, how can you not love DSMs??

 

And lately you havent seen me posting ive been reading it all and trying to get good information but when 90% of posts are garbage or worthless, then im going to report the worthless and garbage posts.

Maybe you should make another post stating clearly to stay the **** out of the thread unless you have something worthwhile to say.

 

That was one quote I found on dsmtuners out of the hundreds of bad posts about Vishnu and Shiv, check for yourself! Just search shiv or vishnu on dsmtuners.com

 

Okay.. Here goes:

Jim, please stay out of this thread. And out of this forum. I think I can speak for just about everyone here.

Shiv