Actually, according to all my data logs, 7600 rpm in 3rd gear is 87mph.

 

Al, please clear up something for me. When you came to Atlanta to road tune cars, you said that my car and other cars were not responding to your adjustments equally. Actually, one could say that there seemed to be rather major differences between the various stock cars you tuned while you were here at that time. Are you saying in effect that if we had all had a BR stage One modification, our cars would have responded identically to the same tune?

I would be much more inclined to believe that there are major differences between individual cars which would make it very unlikely that you could develop a cookie cutter tune that would yield big power gains in any EVO. I think that the factory tune is the best compromise that the engineers at came up with after who knows how many thousands and thousands of hours of work and tests which would produce the best, safest levels of performance for all the cars taking into account their differences.

While I'm willing to believe that off-the-shelf flashes can modify things like the rpm cut-off and other such things, I don't believe that there is any way that a universal high power recipe can be made that will work safely or effectively in all cars. That's exactly why people like yourself and others travel around the country performing custom tunes..........

 

when Al talkes about road load conditions what does he mean?? air,terrain,ambient??
i dont see a lot of car manufactures going to other countries to road tune a car example:
like me for instance i bought my car from japan and no japanese guy came here to tune my car for the roads we have in our country they just sended me the car!! what i say with this if road tuning would be so important they would have sended someone from the factory to tune my car to the roads we have!!
also in the brochures that i have from the evo they present dynos sheets of horsepower and torque and most car manufatcures do this!! so i assume they do dyno testings!
so in my opinion i prefer a dyno sesion then a road sesion tune where you dont have any base runs nor after runs only our butts dynos!!
also not every aftermarket part will give you the gains they claim!! cmon its marketing they do the best!! so i prefer stock parts most of the times!!

 

Looks like I have $20 coming.

Umm, X amount of power on a dyno will equal Y amount of power on the street (at a given atmospheric condition, assuming the same grade)

That is the generally accepted opinion of many, though AUTC is probably a better test, and lastly AUTC as limited by gearing is probably my personal favorite.

Please provide data to backup that claim. An unquantified statement such as this is a waste of bandwidth. (and is that "genuine" or "engine"?)

1/4 mile race would work too, wouldn't it?

Then you may have had me line up as a customer in mid '04. But the dynoflash track record at that time was somewhat ... unclear ...

It's always nice to have data, but large volumes of data by no means equate to a good tune. The internet would be a perfect example of this.

Again this is an unquantifiable statement, since no-one has a 5 year history on modded Evo 8's or 9's.

As a tuner, you should know the answer to that ... which amounts to: quite frankly we do not know, since we do not know where timing was at at that point. Though we certainly know that no timing was being pulled due to knock.

Now we know ...

No, and I can't comment on what would make you a good or bad tuner, since I am not qualified to comment on that subject. However, if we take a look at your post history and hypocritical remarks on these forums, then it makes me think twice about wanting to do business with dynoflash.

OMG, do we really need to answer this?

This I would have to see, because outside of professional racing, I have not seen this being the case for street cars.

How does a paper written by Dinan apply to the tuning of an Evo 9? It has been well documented that dynoing a BMW is not the wisest of ideas, since their ECU is more advanced and will reduce engine power when it is not receiving values within it's programmed range (i.e. road speed, airflow, etc.). So far nothing of the like has been found in the Evo ECUs, although the Evo 9 ECU is more advanced than the Evo 8 ECU.

l8r)

 

Its funny you should mention that as every manufactuer conducts extensive road testing and tuning in areas all over the world on thier vehicles - hence the spy shots of new cars undergoing desert or winter testing

 

Al but here in my country never has a japanese arrive to test the evos out and to check our type of roads!! i aint lying!!

 

Actually there are a few areas where "one-size-fits-all" flashes can be developed, and that is in specific octane tuning. A stock Evo ECU is tuned for the worst-case scenario, which might look something like: 91 octane (R+M/2) gas, at an altitude of 7000 feet, during blizzard conditions at -10 degrees fahrenheit. So, conceivably, you could develop an off-the-shelf flash that would work for 93 Octane gas and still leave enough room for the other worst case scenarios and have it work for all Evos (let's say 99.9%). Something like that would probably be worth about 10 whp...

One more note ... it is also incorrect to assume that a custom tune is "better" than an off-the-shelf type tune. Generally speaking (and there are, of course, exceptions), but generally speaking a custom tune will get as much performance out of your car as your current level of mods and the safety margin of the tuner will allow. For those of us, living in climates where there are significant temperature changes over the year, this generally means that we get a a kicka$$ tune for when it's warm. However, once it gets cold, that wonderful summer tune has a tendency to overboost and therefore becomes a very "bad" tune unless it's adjusted.

l8r)

 

Al, also car manufactures use dynos for most thats why they use it in there brochures so customers see the graphs so i think for them its more important the dynos sesions!

 

They usually show fake crank HP numbers or engine dyno numbers, not WHP numbers.

 

MY POINT IS that having a tune set up for MAX WHP ON A DYNO is not what makes a "good" tune for the street

IN EVERY case where I have tuned cars on dynos I detune pump gas cars SIGNIFICANTLY off the theroertical max limits

If good = MAX POSSIBLE WHP you can make on a given set of mods then you don't want my product

I say this and meanwhile I have more customers in the 11's than any other reflasher - my product is very fast and very safe - it is NOT THE MAX WHP YOU CAN MAKE

I tune to reach the proper compromise between power, saftey and smoothness which is a matter of judgment and discretion of the tuner and not something you can measure on a dyno

If the car could max out at 375 whp at a given level of boost - it may be prudent to tune it at 340 - 350 whp to allow for variation in fuel and climate for instance

A dyno is just a measuring tool like a ruler

Cars are driven on the road

The cars I tuned are tuned to make very good power gains over a stock tune and also maintain near stock like reliability

The reason why I ask if Mistsubishi are loosers is I query why the Evo comes do detuned and makes so little power on Shiv's dyno ? Maybe they should hire shiv to tune the cars at the factory with the exede ?

 

I have nothing against you, Al. I just need the information. Thank you.

 

What? If I am understanding this correctly, which is hard, you are wondering why stock evos make such little whp on shiv's dyno?

Ok, why do stock evos make such little whp on Buschurs dyno?

They are both low reading dynos. If I didn't understand your question correctly, please rewrite it so more than 2% of the population can understand it.

 

Again I ask, why does a reputed tuner have to ask this question? For starters:
- gasoline quality (detuned)
- altitude (detuned)
- emissions (detuned)
- Japanese "honor system" for car hp - i.e. keep it under 300 hp (detuned)
- atmospheric conditions (detuned)

Furthermore it seems to me that stock Evos read low on all Dyno Dynamics dynos as well as a lot of Mustang dynos. Again, why bother asking rethorical questions?

l8r)

 

You are right, but so am I.... The tune is for worst case scenario, but still there are cars out there (for instance my old EVO according to Al) which are at the margin even with the tune.... Imagine what happens to a car like that with cookie cutter tune that removes that small factor of safety.....

I don't believe for one minute that every custom tune is better than anything else, not even a s good a the stock tune. I've had enough painful experiece to know that . Also, I know all about the need to re-tune when the weather gets cold.... Now, that brings up yet another issue. How does a "road tune" address that change in temperatures? I guess one would have to have the "road tuner" make another set of runs and adjustments each time the weather changes.....

Now, isn't a fact that the stock tune works for all situations? Even allowing for lower octane gasoline? Seems to me that everyone with any sort of custom tune needs to visit their tuner at least twice a year..... Also, if those off-the-shelf reflashes are in effect changing those maps for a more aggressive tune, would it not become more dangerous as the conditions change? After all, do brand X, Y or Z reflashes allow for more power under all the conditions that the OEM maps do? Something has got to give... I don't see how one can have it both ways...

 

WHY are stock evos so weak on every dyno?

WHY can most tuners reflash the ecu and make much more power so easily ?

WHy is the tune from so weak?