Quick Trip gas is bad, or did he put in the wrong octane?

 

Sure you can, I am not talking about throwing in a ecu and going at it you need a base but you can tune a car from the pits lap after lap with several ecu's

 

Ok its 479 posts about 1 - Al's tuning ability or 2 - Road tuning not being accurate...
Can anyone prove that road tuning is not accurate? If you can, please go tell all these stupid race teams that they need to use a dyno or they will never reach their full potential.

Also you can spell check me or take something I said and make it sound different if I do not write a whole book on what I really meant.

We still have not seen anyone prove road tuning to be unreliable at the track with Et and Mph...... I will bet there are cars with slightly higher dyno numbers and slower E.T. Mph

 

It is know that factories give false hp figures because of federal and insurance reasons. I know for a fact my Buick Grand National made more than 245 hp stock. Everyone always says the Skyline hp is way underated. I think Mazda got a lawsuit from their Rx-8 not making the claimed hp.

 

i totally agree with you its to be a wise person to do this!!

 

Ok so since this is such a obviously loaded question, why don't you just cut to the chase and answer it yourself.

 

we all know that when the factory claims the base horsepower it can be +15hp or -15hp depending on the car when the engine was built or depending on how good the break in was made from the owner! my point is that they always tend to show a graph of the horsepower and torque on any brochure so they used a dyno to get this information!!

 

No way I have to call BS on this one. F1 teams do not tune at the track, it has been said here wrongly several times now. They have the most sophisticated dynos in the world with the engine doing the exact same lap for the next race hooked up to the gearbox a computer and in a controlled sealed dyno room where the control the atmospheric conditions exactly. The can control altitude (baro pressure), humidity, temperature etc. The engine is tested under these controlled conditions through the range of weather conditions that they may face. It is all done on the dyno, all possible conditions all loads simulated over and over by the computer running the engine till they are satisfied.

When at the track they measure the weather conditions and load in the map that they developed on the dyno.

They do the same thing with the chassis, the car is put on a 8 post rig that perfectly replicates the track and loads the chassis will encounter and they run through controlled simulations testing every variable.

See the pattern, on the dyno (weather engine or chassis) you can isolate the variables and absolutely control the conditions of the test. F1 drivers don't even get to choose the set-up of the car anymore, they log the data and send it via satellite up link to the factory where they run simulations on the 8 post rig and come up with the solution which the beam back to the team at the track (I kid you not).

The point is that they do gather ridiculous amounts of data, all so they can better simulate those conditions under control on the dynos. The track is not for tuning it is for data gathering, the dyno(s) are used for tuning.

We did the low budget version in Word Challenge GT the last couple of years. Cosworth would dyno the engines under all possible conditions and load all those maps into the laptop we'd get to the track check the weather and load the right map, then monitor the car to check to make sure the engine was running properly, if it wasn't the map wasn't changed the engine problem was diagnosed and the parts (sensors etc.) were replaced. The map was always trusted because it was made under controlled and verified conditions.

 

Umm. What does that have to do with road tuning not being accurate? Also the GN makes close to 300 hp. So its way off. And what does the heavy skyline trap at? I'm sure its more than 15 hp off.

 

read post 488 please !!

 

Yes, toplevel teams tune at the track, especially in drag racing. No, with only dyno tuning back home at their shop, they will not be optimized, due to having to rebuild engines between rounds. Toplevel teams have to tune at every single track they go to. Elevations change, temps change, etc. There are a ton of variables from day to day and minute to minute. They must always adapt to the changing conditions. This does not matter in this discussion. We are talking about which methods we prefer our cars to be tuned with and with methods we feel are best for our cars. We are not looking for every single horsepower nor are we going to get tuned 47 times a day for changing conditions.

What this whole thread comes down to is personal preference just like most everything else. We all have our opinions as to what we think are the best ways to do things. You have to find a tuner whose tuning methods, philosphy on tuning, etc are inline with what you like. I like what Shiv has done with my cars. I agree with his methods and how he does things. What Shiv does is best for me. I have more criteria than who makes the most power and what not. Having a good working relationship with my tuner is also important to me.

Who is better? That can't be answered the same by everyone. For me its Vishnu and not Al. Nothing against Al, but I personally will not be a customer of his for many reasons. In fact if a certain shop had EcuTek capabilities, Shiv wouldn't be tuning my car either. Nothing against Vishnu, but I think a certain someone is as good and is local to me.

I am guilty in some of my earlier posts of trying to get some poop started, but its time for all that to end. We each have to answer the questions of who is better for us individually. This thread will never answer that for us. We might as well be trying to figure out which subwoofer is best. JL, OZ, Kove? I hate JL, but we can argue all month long as to which brand is best.

 

Thanks for all that interesting info. Now all of that is needed to simulate what? REAL WORLD CONDITIONS.... So now I'm guessing all these "other" dyno shops have the same thing so they can replicate the "Real world".... Or maybe the real world would be more accurate if you do not have a 1 billion dollar dyno to tune with... And I was being serious when I thanked you for that detailed information.

 

Toplevel pro racing has nothing to do with our street cars. What is best for them probably isn't best for us and vice versa.

 

they use the track to gather information so that they can tune it on a dyno!

 

I'll take a stab ...
The Good:
- Tuning at the track has you driving your car in real-world conditions
- As long as nothing goes wrong, you end up with a good 1/4 mile tune

The Bad:
- When tuning at the 1/4 mile strip, you only get a full pull in 1st gear, all other gears won't get below 5000 rpm. Not exactly what I'd look for in a "tune"
- No chance to map partial throttle at all, since you're at WOT all the time
- Not exactly optimal to tune for other conditions, such as road-racing ... i.e. you are not stressing the engine long enough
- You cannot monitor more than a few things at a time, and the faster you go, the fewer things you will have time to monitor (read: keeping the car in control will start taking 100% of your time if you're fast enough).

The Ugly:
- If something goes wrong, things can get really dangerous, really fast. When you're hauling *** down your lane at over 100mph and your boost suddenly starts to climb, you're very unlikely to be in a position to react in time.

Depending on the track layout, tuning on a circuit race track would be more appropriate when tuning for daily driving.

Tuning on public roads, IMO, is not only not accurate enough but also irresponsible.

l8r)