how does Shiv feel about the 20GIX turbo
An upgraded wastegate actuator is crucial with these turbos. The dif in boost response/stability before and after is major (mine is set to 17psi spring pressure). Atleast that was the case with my WR-8.
FWIW, the WG that is affixed to the 20G-9 is claimed to be an 'upgraded' unit.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
Likewise, I'm guessing that the max boost pressure when the WG is actuated entirely mechanically should match the pressure rating of the spring. If this is the way to 'calibrate' the WG, that seems logical enough.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
Likewise, I'm guessing that the max boost pressure when the WG is actuated entirely mechanically should match the pressure rating of the spring. If this is the way to 'calibrate' the WG, that seems logical enough.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by fury656
An upgraded wastegate actuator is crucial with these turbos. The dif in boost response/stability before and after is major (mine is set to 17psi spring pressure). Atleast that was the case with my WR-8.
Correct... going to soft on a wastegate and relying on your boost control system to raise boost to the desired level is going to impact boost stability. It may be more spike prone under dynamic conditions. However, it should have no effect on power just as long as the desired boost pressures are achieved. On Ted B's dyno graph, there is no evidence of boost instability. Just a bit more lag and a lot more high RPM boost.
Shiv
Originally Posted by Ted B
FWIW, the WG that is affixed to the 20G-9 is claimed to be an 'upgraded' unit.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
Likewise, I'm guessing that the max boost pressure when the WG is actuated entirely mechanically should match the pressure rating of the spring. If this is the way to 'calibrate' the WG, that seems logical enough.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
Likewise, I'm guessing that the max boost pressure when the WG is actuated entirely mechanically should match the pressure rating of the spring. If this is the way to 'calibrate' the WG, that seems logical enough.
Last edited by fury656; Mar 2, 2006 at 01:51 PM.
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by Ted B
FWIW, the WG that is affixed to the 20G-9 is claimed to be an 'upgraded' unit.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
In order to tighten the WG, I presume that I'd remove the cotter key, and screw the turnbuckle such that I'm effectively shortening the rod? That would seem to require more diaphragm travel against the spring to get the same degree of WG movement.
Shiv
I'm also skeptical about the power of the 20G.
If you look at this thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...4&page=1&pp=15
4TUN8's sig says "The REAL 20g /////// 396awhp 343ft-lbs"
A couple of posts down, Blue Evo 8's sig says
"TurboTrix tuned, Stock 05 Turbo,
***380.47 AWHP, 409.17 TQ***"
Im not sure of either of their mods, I ASSUME, on the sameTurboTrix dyno.
I'd rather have the stock 05 turbo with his numbers then the REAL 20g with 60 less tq. Maybe Blue Evo 8 was running race gas? But the tq seems pretty low in comparison to the hp for the 20g. Just my thoughts.
If you look at this thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...4&page=1&pp=15
4TUN8's sig says "The REAL 20g /////// 396awhp 343ft-lbs"
A couple of posts down, Blue Evo 8's sig says
"TurboTrix tuned, Stock 05 Turbo,
***380.47 AWHP, 409.17 TQ***"
Im not sure of either of their mods, I ASSUME, on the sameTurboTrix dyno.
I'd rather have the stock 05 turbo with his numbers then the REAL 20g with 60 less tq. Maybe Blue Evo 8 was running race gas? But the tq seems pretty low in comparison to the hp for the 20g. Just my thoughts.
Last edited by Cloud; Mar 4, 2006 at 09:01 AM.
Shiv,
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Shiv,
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Shiv,
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
Ted's dyno chart does show high boost but look at the boost curve and you will agree that is is very odd. The boost comes up, goes flat and then rises. This is not at all normal. As you know, typically, the boost will come up instantly with the spike that they have and then work it's way down to a lower level. The "20g's" and the stock turbos both like a high boost in the low/mid range and then fall off up top. The turbo stays in a very good efficiency range doing this. You can actually find this efficiency range if you move the boost around while you are tuning and watch the AFR's. This is particulary true using the AEM and the boost correct tables.
Ted's problem, from what I can see on his graphs, is the initial boost is not hitting as it should. IF it it, for example, 28 psi right off the the bat and then fell he will then see his torque come back and the power go up.
David Buschur
I am not trying to be argumentative, but Ted's car did not seem to get any stronger no matter what boost pressure was used....here I have overlayed a previous run from the same session when we used about 2 psi more and it is clear no gains were made...It has been suggested that Ted has an older 6 bladed compressor wheel and this is the reason for the turbos poor performance ....is this the case in your opinion?
Take a look at the boost line on that car. It is not right, that is my point. Lay the stock turbo graph across that boost graph and I think you will find the stock turbo'd graph has more of a peak in the boost rather than that flat line you see pictured there. That is why the turbo looks like the wastegate is not adjusted to make the turbo "hit".
My RS has no torque problem
As a matter of fact on our dyno the car just put down 410 whp and 450 ft lbs.
It will be run on a Dynojet on Tuesday to get some higher numbers
David Buschur
My RS has no torque problem
As a matter of fact on our dyno the car just put down 410 whp and 450 ft lbs.It will be run on a Dynojet on Tuesday to get some higher numbers
David Buschur
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Take a look at the boost line on that car. It is not right, that is my point. Lay the stock turbo graph across that boost graph and I think you will find the stock turbo'd graph has more of a peak in the boost rather than that flat line you see pictured there. That is why the turbo looks like the wastegate is not adjusted to make the turbo "hit".
My RS has no torque problem As a matter of fact on our dyno the car just put down 410 whp and 450 ft lbs.
It will be run on a Dynojet on Tuesday to get some higher numbers
David Buschur
My RS has no torque problem
As a matter of fact on our dyno the car just put down 410 whp and 450 ft lbs.It will be run on a Dynojet on Tuesday to get some higher numbers
David Buschur
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Take a look at the boost line on that car. It is not right, that is my point. Lay the stock turbo graph across that boost graph and I think you will find the stock turbo'd graph has more of a peak in the boost rather than that flat line you see pictured there. That is why the turbo looks like the wastegate is not adjusted to make the turbo "hit".
I have upgraded 2 turbos. Both have made more power at the same psi just bolting them on and adjusting the AFR's. I wonder if TedB has a defective turbo.
Originally Posted by Cloud
I'm also skeptical about the power of the 20G.
If you look at this thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...4&page=1&pp=15
4TUN8's sig says "The REAL 20g /////// 396awhp 343ft-lbs"
A couple of posts down, Blue Evo 8's sig says
"TurboTrix tuned, Stock 05 Turbo,
***380.47 AWHP, 409.17 TQ***"
Im not sure of either of their mods, I ASSUME, on the sameTurboTrix dyno.
I'd rather have the stock 05 turbo with his numbers then the REAL 20g with 60 less tq. Maybe Blue Evo 8 was running race gas? But the tq seems pretty low in comparison to the hp for the 20g. Just my thoughts.
If you look at this thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...4&page=1&pp=15
4TUN8's sig says "The REAL 20g /////// 396awhp 343ft-lbs"
A couple of posts down, Blue Evo 8's sig says
"TurboTrix tuned, Stock 05 Turbo,
***380.47 AWHP, 409.17 TQ***"
Im not sure of either of their mods, I ASSUME, on the sameTurboTrix dyno.
I'd rather have the stock 05 turbo with his numbers then the REAL 20g with 60 less tq. Maybe Blue Evo 8 was running race gas? But the tq seems pretty low in comparison to the hp for the 20g. Just my thoughts.
Originally Posted by jj_008
If both turbos are running the same pressure, then why doesn't the 20g make more power? I don't see why the wastegate would need to be adjusted either. It seems like its hitting 26-27psi and holding it for ~2000rpm before it starts tapering.
I have upgraded 2 turbos. Both have made more power at the same psi just bolting them on and adjusting the AFR's. I wonder if TedB has a defective turbo.
I have upgraded 2 turbos. Both have made more power at the same psi just bolting them on and adjusting the AFR's. I wonder if TedB has a defective turbo.