DIY water-alcohol injection system
Dec 31, 2005, 09:52 AM
#48
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A high resolution version of the diagram can be downloaded form here:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/plus-2d.pdf
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/plus-2d.pdf
Last edited by Richard L; Dec 31, 2005 at 09:58 AM.
Dec 31, 2005, 06:23 PM
#49
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you know what I like about Richard L.?
He is "BEYOND" helpful in the entire water/alcohol injection arena, regaurdless of system.
He doesn't just try to push Aquamist, (which I consider the standard, by which all others are measured).
I've seen him post helpful info on several forums and never says, "Auqamist is the way to go".
I still think, (and I'm sure Richard will agree), there is still alot to learn and performance to gain with these systems.
I'm just glad we have people like Richard to help us along the way.
Happy New Year everybody. May you find even more hidden horsepower next year!!!
He is "BEYOND" helpful in the entire water/alcohol injection arena, regaurdless of system.
He doesn't just try to push Aquamist, (which I consider the standard, by which all others are measured).
I've seen him post helpful info on several forums and never says, "Auqamist is the way to go".
I still think, (and I'm sure Richard will agree), there is still alot to learn and performance to gain with these systems.
I'm just glad we have people like Richard to help us along the way.
Happy New Year everybody. May you find even more hidden horsepower next year!!!
Jan 2, 2006, 04:54 AM
#52
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Guys, your response have given me a great deal of encouragement on pushing the WI concept forward. I do find it hard to continue single-handed.
We are blessed with a huge number of WI manufacturers making affordable units. In order for the concept to become a useful tuning tool, we must explore the way WI can be applied so it contributes more on the performance platform.
"bang for the buck" is the key to the popularity and growth of the water/alcohol injection market. Regardless of W/A ratio, each and every system has to be properly tuned to get the best results.
Having got an overwhelming WAI makers and systems available, I think we should be concentrating on the tuning aspect since WIA cannot work entirely on it own without the co-operations of a willing tuner. This is the area where we should encourage more - we have enough people posting the merit of each system purchased and use. We must try to post more information of tuners that understands the concept and gives good consistent results. I have to discount the hypes and go back to basics.
Since we are on the DIY theme, I can make available some simple electronic devices that will enable anyone to modify the MAF signal etc themselves to experiment how to trim fuel. Trimming the MAF signal have two effects: cutting fuel and advancing timings - two main ingredients to a successful WIA tune.
I have a question, does the EVO uses MAF sensor?
DIY tuning is not dangerous unless you take unnecessary risks. I have to assume that the device needed is working in its most basic form - ideally trimming the MAF signal at a user specified part of the sensor (upper part) and some control over how much voltage is being trimmed linearly with the "WI" is being truly injected in real time. The result can be very rewarding and cost effective.
Do you think I should spend some work on that simple device and offering it?
Richard
We are blessed with a huge number of WI manufacturers making affordable units. In order for the concept to become a useful tuning tool, we must explore the way WI can be applied so it contributes more on the performance platform.
"bang for the buck" is the key to the popularity and growth of the water/alcohol injection market. Regardless of W/A ratio, each and every system has to be properly tuned to get the best results.
Having got an overwhelming WAI makers and systems available, I think we should be concentrating on the tuning aspect since WIA cannot work entirely on it own without the co-operations of a willing tuner. This is the area where we should encourage more - we have enough people posting the merit of each system purchased and use. We must try to post more information of tuners that understands the concept and gives good consistent results. I have to discount the hypes and go back to basics.
Since we are on the DIY theme, I can make available some simple electronic devices that will enable anyone to modify the MAF signal etc themselves to experiment how to trim fuel. Trimming the MAF signal have two effects: cutting fuel and advancing timings - two main ingredients to a successful WIA tune.
I have a question, does the EVO uses MAF sensor?
DIY tuning is not dangerous unless you take unnecessary risks. I have to assume that the device needed is working in its most basic form - ideally trimming the MAF signal at a user specified part of the sensor (upper part) and some control over how much voltage is being trimmed linearly with the "WI" is being truly injected in real time. The result can be very rewarding and cost effective.
Do you think I should spend some work on that simple device and offering it?
Richard
Jan 2, 2006, 07:05 AM
#53
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The Evo uses a Karmon style MAF sensor. Many are using the Apexi SAFC (and SAFC II), HKS SAFR, MafT Pro and other types of MAF signal manipulators.
Obviously, having a wideband O2 sensor is required for DIY tuning. A datalogger for timing, intake temp would also be helpful.
My personal tune is a comprimise. I have an Ecutec flash. I have a low boost, no WI tune for daily driving (302hp/277lb tq) , and a high boost with WI(340hp/335lb tq).
I had the car tuned for no WI. Then turned of the WI and cranked the boost. We pulled some fuel, but not as much as I could. This way my low boost wouldn't be too lean.
So now when I want to get an addional 40HP/58lb tq I turn on the WI and change my HKS EVC V to high boost settings. Instant power.
Obviously, having a wideband O2 sensor is required for DIY tuning. A datalogger for timing, intake temp would also be helpful.
My personal tune is a comprimise. I have an Ecutec flash. I have a low boost, no WI tune for daily driving (302hp/277lb tq) , and a high boost with WI(340hp/335lb tq).
I had the car tuned for no WI. Then turned of the WI and cranked the boost. We pulled some fuel, but not as much as I could. This way my low boost wouldn't be too lean.
So now when I want to get an addional 40HP/58lb tq I turn on the WI and change my HKS EVC V to high boost settings. Instant power.
Jan 3, 2006, 05:58 PM
#54
I run stock ecu & sensors with a mbc directly inline from turbo to WG act, and my ecu is custom tuned. I've been scouting around on solvent inj setups but I'm affraid of putting my trust in the current evo specific kits avail at this time. I feel with the right tools, knowledge and equipment the setup like the one above is probably the best that can be achieved but would be out of my budget and skill level. In the future, maybe one of you DIY pioneers will develop something like this as a specific kit that I can purchase, instal and get someone to tune, but in the meantime I may just get SMC and wait for the SMC fail-safe addition to be released or device a plan to hook up the DDS3 to it.
Jan 3, 2006, 06:03 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by C6C6CH3vo
I run stock ecu & sensors with a mbc directly inline from turbo to WG act, and my ecu is custom tuned. I've been scouting around on solvent inj setups but I'm affraid of putting my trust in the current evo specific kits avail at this time. I feel with the right tools, knowledge and equipment the setup like the one above is probably the best that can be achieved but would be out of my budget and skill level. In the future, maybe one of you DIY pioneers will develop something like this as a specific kit that I can purchase, instal and get someone to tune, but in the meantime I may just get SMC and wait for the SMC fail-safe addition to be released or device a plan to hook up the DDS3 to it.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...57&postcount=1
Jan 5, 2006, 11:32 AM
#56
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Thank you very much for the information. Does the EVO mAF sensor give out 0-5V relative to mas air flow? or some fancy PCM outout (frequence vs flow)
I am very interested on how you pull fuel with boost is cranked up? Is it designed in on the Ecuteck map? When boost is above certain level, it reduces duty cycle?
If it is the case, it is very clever way to gain power and uses less fuel.
We have been thinking of the same thing a few years ago but no one was intersted, here is a test MAP.
Richard
You can almost see that you use less fuel at higher boost with WI.
I am very interested on how you pull fuel with boost is cranked up? Is it designed in on the Ecuteck map? When boost is above certain level, it reduces duty cycle?
If it is the case, it is very clever way to gain power and uses less fuel.
We have been thinking of the same thing a few years ago but no one was intersted, here is a test MAP.
Richard
You can almost see that you use less fuel at higher boost with WI.
Originally Posted by bishiboy
The Evo uses a Karmon style MAF sensor. Many are using the Apexi SAFC (and SAFC II), HKS SAFR, MafT Pro and other types of MAF signal manipulators.
Obviously, having a wideband O2 sensor is required for DIY tuning. A datalogger for timing, intake temp would also be helpful.
My personal tune is a comprimise. I have an Ecutec flash. I have a low boost, no WI tune for daily driving (302hp/277lb tq) , and a high boost with WI(340hp/335lb tq).
I had the car tuned for no WI. Then turned of the WI and cranked the boost. We pulled some fuel, but not as much as I could. This way my low boost wouldn't be too lean.
So now when I want to get an addional 40HP/58lb tq I turn on the WI and change my HKS EVC V to high boost settings. Instant power.
Obviously, having a wideband O2 sensor is required for DIY tuning. A datalogger for timing, intake temp would also be helpful.
My personal tune is a comprimise. I have an Ecutec flash. I have a low boost, no WI tune for daily driving (302hp/277lb tq) , and a high boost with WI(340hp/335lb tq).
I had the car tuned for no WI. Then turned of the WI and cranked the boost. We pulled some fuel, but not as much as I could. This way my low boost wouldn't be too lean.
So now when I want to get an addional 40HP/58lb tq I turn on the WI and change my HKS EVC V to high boost settings. Instant power.
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