updated wrx... what does this mean for the ralliart
sorry it will be confusing but i got some issues with the net , so this is belongs my last respond:
test link:
"The STI begins with three differentials, a helical limited slip diff at the front axle and a TORSEN (TORque SENsing) diff at the rear. At the centre is the Driver Controlled Centre Differential (DCCD) version of Subaru’s famed Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive. The DCCD is probably the best system of its type you can buy on any car regardless of price.
The driver has a choice of three automatic performance modes as well as no less than six manual differential locking settings. For the first time, the DCCD integrates the pitch and yaw and traction control systems in three driver selectable modes.
It sounds confusing (and it is) until you play with it over a variety of terrains and road surfaces. Like Subaru Rally Team driver Petter Solberg, you will find yourself reaching for the DCCD toggle on the transmission tunnel to make changes. This is not a gimmick, but a system similar in concept to what Solberg uses in a race and one you can use to get the utmost from this splendid car.
Now just to confuse you a bit more, there is also the Subaru SI-Drive that lets the driver chose between three engine response curves via a rotary knob also on the transmission tunnel. The choices are Intelligent for economical highway cruising, Sport for more spirited motoring and Sport Sharp for when things get serious. These modes are displayed on the instrument panel.
I found myself sticking with Sport and the DCCD set on the centre setting for a 50:50 torque split. Later, I went for Sport Sharp with the DCCD set on the first of three automatic settings for more bias to the front for the sharp hairpins on Carmel Valley Rd. On Highway 1 on the way to Monterey, I toggled in Intelligent and with torque biased to the rear for surprisingly comfortable cruising. It’s hard to explain but, in practice, it’s actually simple to use."
http://www.yorkregion.com/Leisure/article/64537
test link:
"The STI begins with three differentials, a helical limited slip diff at the front axle and a TORSEN (TORque SENsing) diff at the rear. At the centre is the Driver Controlled Centre Differential (DCCD) version of Subaru’s famed Symmetrical All-Wheel-Drive. The DCCD is probably the best system of its type you can buy on any car regardless of price.
The driver has a choice of three automatic performance modes as well as no less than six manual differential locking settings. For the first time, the DCCD integrates the pitch and yaw and traction control systems in three driver selectable modes.
It sounds confusing (and it is) until you play with it over a variety of terrains and road surfaces. Like Subaru Rally Team driver Petter Solberg, you will find yourself reaching for the DCCD toggle on the transmission tunnel to make changes. This is not a gimmick, but a system similar in concept to what Solberg uses in a race and one you can use to get the utmost from this splendid car.
Now just to confuse you a bit more, there is also the Subaru SI-Drive that lets the driver chose between three engine response curves via a rotary knob also on the transmission tunnel. The choices are Intelligent for economical highway cruising, Sport for more spirited motoring and Sport Sharp for when things get serious. These modes are displayed on the instrument panel.
I found myself sticking with Sport and the DCCD set on the centre setting for a 50:50 torque split. Later, I went for Sport Sharp with the DCCD set on the first of three automatic settings for more bias to the front for the sharp hairpins on Carmel Valley Rd. On Highway 1 on the way to Monterey, I toggled in Intelligent and with torque biased to the rear for surprisingly comfortable cruising. It’s hard to explain but, in practice, it’s actually simple to use."
http://www.yorkregion.com/Leisure/article/64537
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 25, 2008 at 06:00 AM.
99% of people will never get anywhere near 500 whp. A 500 whp car is insane, you're essentially doubling the horsepower on an already potent vehicle. You're also naive if you think you can run that kind of power with other modifications (like engine or head internals, tranny work, etc). I don't see how the 500 whp capability is relevant anyways as you yourself have said it is not and it has nothing to do with how the cars compare in more practical applications.
You bealive only AMS not me , so they said the engine is running and testing on stock internals only boltons 500 + whp no engine internal mods. Not even head studs. You are getting away again.. tranny work... we talking about the engine , dont we? How the 500 whp relevant here , if you want it i can say it again, The evo X engine respond better for the mods then the 08 STI. This is why, because you will not do this on the stock STI engine:
"quote AMS:
Hahaha we have a prototype kit running right now for durability. This is using a Tubular manifold not a cast as the cast header takes a while to get back from casting.
So far the results are GREAT! At only just over 25psi with a bone stock long block (stock head studs, cams…everything) the car is making almost 500whp on 100oct. 100 octane was used to create a nice safety margin since the 4B11 is relatively uncharted at these levels.
Still with a simple tubular header and not our much nicer cast version the car is making CRAZY HP with just simple bolt on AMS Parts.
Did I mention an EVO X with close 500whp on a 30R is RIDICULOUSLY FUN TO DRIVE!!!!
Eric
___"
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=359810&page=4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VurmU8_wlu0
as far as evo team where i belong goes, let say this 60 % of us closer to 500 whp then 250.
And because is expensive to get there with the VIII and a IX. Now, i hope the Turbo kit will be cheaper way. Since we don't need cams etc+ the cost of the job for those. I dont know about your guys, not to mention since you are driving a subi , how many times you actually rolling with those Evos.
where is your STI engine wich hold 500 whp that is close to 580 hp on stock engine?
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 25, 2008 at 06:17 AM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 784
Likes: 0
From: PA
Originally Posted by stEVOx
well the WRX stock tyres are obviously superior to the RA's.
Originally Posted by stEVOx
also, everyone haveing a cry about amby, shut the hell up, he(or she?) is making valid points that should/need to be considered, the RA/evo/mitsubishi is not the greatest car in the world and never will be, sure they have good cars, but the WRX and STI are also good cars and are valid alternatives...
Even if he is a fanboy (and I'm not saying he is), I like to play devil's advocate myself sometimes, so I can appreciate his input here.
Originally Posted by ODUB
i never said to change anything on the cars. i said put them on the same tires.
i 'm with you on that , even if some one is a fanboy, it is good to hear and see his opinion about our cars.
If you have a good debate that is always beneficial for everyone.
Even if it goes a little too far sometimes.
We cant agree on everything always. Because if we do, we would still hunting for rabbits with traps ...
If you have a good debate that is always beneficial for everyone.
Even if it goes a little too far sometimes.
We cant agree on everything always. Because if we do, we would still hunting for rabbits with traps ...
The '09 runs summer tires, so maybe. The '08 ran all-seasons from the factory -- highly doubt they're better than the Ralliart's tire.
Even if he is a fanboy (and I'm not saying he is), I like to play devil's advocate myself sometimes, so I can appreciate his input here.
Most people are going to run the car on the tires it came with. I explained this to a classroom of preschoolers, and they agreed, so I'm right.
Even if he is a fanboy (and I'm not saying he is), I like to play devil's advocate myself sometimes, so I can appreciate his input here.Most people are going to run the car on the tires it came with. I explained this to a classroom of preschoolers, and they agreed, so I'm right.
and as far as the tires go, yes, i understand what most people do, but i'm not concerned with testing what most people are going to do with the car. i want to know what the car can do. not what it's tires can do. that's all i'm saying, and if you can't seem to understand that, then you need to be in the class with the preschoolers instead of trying to teach them.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: pdx
This thread is becoming ridiculous. Speculation after speculation, one fanboy calling out someone playing devil's advocate. We will see over the next couple years BOTH model's abilities to perform with X and Y modifications. To get all heated and bothered about it NOW, when the cars aren't even available is insane.
And the fact that the Wrx has 1 diff matters how? The Mazdaspeed 3 only has 1 diff, and two wheel drive, and we have seen what kind of numbers the mags are pulling. How do you explain that? It's the WHOLE package, guys...
I vote to end this thread UNTIL the cars are actually released. THEN we can have first-hand accounts of O-W-N-@-G-3....
And the fact that the Wrx has 1 diff matters how? The Mazdaspeed 3 only has 1 diff, and two wheel drive, and we have seen what kind of numbers the mags are pulling. How do you explain that? It's the WHOLE package, guys...
I vote to end this thread UNTIL the cars are actually released. THEN we can have first-hand accounts of O-W-N-@-G-3....
Fact: You are a subaru fanboy who selectively disects other people's posts, and makes assumptions, and claims based on your own missinformed view of what was said.
i never said to change anything on the cars. i said put them on the same tires. PERIOD. slap 225/40/18 direzza Z1 star specs on them, then test the handling. PERIOD. that's all i said. how is that NOT a fair comparison? that gives them a level playing field. also, those tests i sighted as being flawed OBVIOUSLY WERE!!!! what EVO IX do you know actually runs 14's because the car is slow? NONE. if you're running 14's in any EVO, it's because you can't drive. PERIOD. i'm starting to wonder how you became a mod here myself.
the ralliart's AWD system is superior to the WRX's. that's a fact. i don't see how you can even begin to argue that. if you do, then you're saying that the downgraded system the WRX uses is a better setup than the EVO IX...huh? just give it up already.
i never said to change anything on the cars. i said put them on the same tires. PERIOD. slap 225/40/18 direzza Z1 star specs on them, then test the handling. PERIOD. that's all i said. how is that NOT a fair comparison? that gives them a level playing field. also, those tests i sighted as being flawed OBVIOUSLY WERE!!!! what EVO IX do you know actually runs 14's because the car is slow? NONE. if you're running 14's in any EVO, it's because you can't drive. PERIOD. i'm starting to wonder how you became a mod here myself.
the ralliart's AWD system is superior to the WRX's. that's a fact. i don't see how you can even begin to argue that. if you do, then you're saying that the downgraded system the WRX uses is a better setup than the EVO IX...huh? just give it up already.
Putting them on the same tires is changing them. If they don't come stock with the car, it's a modification. You are suggesting putting on wider tires as well (225 vs 215) which is itself a change. As I said, as far as we know, the tires may not be the weak point in the WRX but may be the major problem in the Ralliart. By putting better tires on both, you would be favoring the Ralliart.
How were the tests flawed? A test is a test.
I'm not saying either system is better, they're just different ways of accomplishing the same goal. Is the WRXs system inferior? No since the car still performs very well.
Hey Ambystom, why do you have to destroy every thread with your fickle whining and pointless arguing. Forum's are for spirited conversation, but dissecting EVERY person's post by the word is entirely excessive and counter productive.
Every other time I check this thing its one of your damn whiny post's that are not providing anything new or valuable, but are merely countering another's statement's.
Not to mention that you are a notorious fence rider, how about you let your ocd compulsions take a rest for a few day's and let people make a few statements without them having to make 5 subsequent posts, just to validate every word that they say!
Every other time I check this thing its one of your damn whiny post's that are not providing anything new or valuable, but are merely countering another's statement's.
Not to mention that you are a notorious fence rider, how about you let your ocd compulsions take a rest for a few day's and let people make a few statements without them having to make 5 subsequent posts, just to validate every word that they say!
How am I a notorious fence rider?
when car mags test cars they use them how the average joe would get them from the dealer which included tyres. you say give the WRX and RA same tyres to make it a fair playing playing field, and then you say the RA's system is superior to the WRX's, well the WRX stock tyres are obviously superior to the RA's. so buy your logic we should remove 2 diffs from the RA AWD system to make it fair on the WRX, should we not?
also, everyone haveing a cry about amby, shut the hell up, he(or she?) is making valid points that should/need to be considered, the RA/evo/mitsubishi is not the greatest car in the world and never will be, sure they have good cars, but the WRX and STI are also good cars and are valid alternatives...
ps amby, ur making me seriously consider the WRX as my next car if RA doesnt offer clutched manual
also, everyone haveing a cry about amby, shut the hell up, he(or she?) is making valid points that should/need to be considered, the RA/evo/mitsubishi is not the greatest car in the world and never will be, sure they have good cars, but the WRX and STI are also good cars and are valid alternatives...
ps amby, ur making me seriously consider the WRX as my next car if RA doesnt offer clutched manual
"It was you who brought up the issue of how much HP it can handle which is really more of a pissing contest than anything else since while a motor may be able to make 500 whp without internals, it won't last."
how do YOU know that? Why implanting something for others is not proven?
ETC.
Who is the fanboy, when i stated between both cars at a same level of mods the driver will win . Mean time you telling me the X wont hold more power then the STI- the AMS 500 whp kit will not last long - the STI respond better for the mods- the STI AWD system is easier to set up and you want me to continue? And still you cant admit the STI engine will not hold 500 whp on stock internals...
So there is a loud and clear winner on respond for mods debate. Bolt ons vs bolt ons, without opening the engine the X is a winner, period.
If you are so negative and miss informed about mitsubisi , as a moderator why you going to argument , unless you are a fanboy and try to hold your ground no matter what?
And i'm saying these, without any bad feeling towards you. Just a simple question.
how do YOU know that? Why implanting something for others is not proven?
ETC.
Who is the fanboy, when i stated between both cars at a same level of mods the driver will win . Mean time you telling me the X wont hold more power then the STI- the AMS 500 whp kit will not last long - the STI respond better for the mods- the STI AWD system is easier to set up and you want me to continue? And still you cant admit the STI engine will not hold 500 whp on stock internals...
So there is a loud and clear winner on respond for mods debate. Bolt ons vs bolt ons, without opening the engine the X is a winner, period.
If you are so negative and miss informed about mitsubisi , as a moderator why you going to argument , unless you are a fanboy and try to hold your ground no matter what?
And i'm saying these, without any bad feeling towards you. Just a simple question.
Where did I say the Evo X won't hold more power than the STI? You are making assumptions again.
AMS actually said that the STI responds better to mods, not me. They also have the dynos to prove it and the experience and reputation to make it meaningful.
I also didn't raise the issue of the STI drivetrain being easier to setup. I simply said that the two systems are about on par as far as driver input is concerned (ie. how difficult it is to change the settings).
How does not being able to handle 500 whp make a clear winner? You're naive if you think the evo can actually handle 500 whp on stock internals for long. Moreover, as I said before, 99% of people will never run that kind of power. A 500 whp car is insane both in the power it makes and the maintenance it requires. We're not talking about simple bolt-ons, we're talking about turbo swaps. Hell, there are STIs running with 500 whp as well.
Oddly enough, it seems I'm not the misinformed one since I've actually listened to what the tuners are saying.
subaru forum:
as an example :
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/drivetra...d-correct.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1464280
there is a confusion . As long as you give % for the people to play with, you will get that. With the same " did i set it up right " feeling always
i dont know why hard to understand this? % is not idiot proof for sure..
vs the X plain and simple.
Tarmac - gravel - snow / i hope this is clear enough/
S-AWC: on- temporary off/ when you want to go out from deep snow etc/ - off. / hold the button down for 3 sec/
Need explanation, i hope the only S-awc which is: With or without making the turns with using the break controller.
On - off or for 3 sec hold down button completly off./ never comes back again, untill you turn it on.
So the S-AWC off : the car will not use the breaks to correct the car attitude in the turn , only power distribution.
I'm up for your facts too, since you didn't provide anything yet. To prove me the DCCD is a easier system to set it up.
as an example :
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/drivetra...d-correct.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1464280
there is a confusion . As long as you give % for the people to play with, you will get that. With the same " did i set it up right " feeling always
i dont know why hard to understand this? % is not idiot proof for sure..
vs the X plain and simple.
Tarmac - gravel - snow / i hope this is clear enough/
S-AWC: on- temporary off/ when you want to go out from deep snow etc/ - off. / hold the button down for 3 sec/
Need explanation, i hope the only S-awc which is: With or without making the turns with using the break controller.
On - off or for 3 sec hold down button completly off./ never comes back again, untill you turn it on.
So the S-AWC off : the car will not use the breaks to correct the car attitude in the turn , only power distribution.
I'm up for your facts too, since you didn't provide anything yet. To prove me the DCCD is a easier system to set it up.
Again, where did I say the DCCD was easier to setup? Moreover, it's a simple system to understand, you can move the power back or move the power forward. It's a simple dial for god's sake.
What do all those settings mean? What happens when you engage gravel? Snow? Tarmac?
Again, where did I say the DCCD was easier to setup? Moreover, it's a simple system to understand, you can move the power back or move the power forward. It's a simple dial for god's sake.
Again, where did I say the DCCD was easier to setup? Moreover, it's a simple system to understand, you can move the power back or move the power forward. It's a simple dial for god's sake.
Post #459, you clearly raise the issue of AMS running 500 whp with their turbo kit.
Where did I say the Evo X won't hold more power than the STI? You are making assumptions again.
AMS actually said that the STI responds better to mods, not me. They also have the dynos to prove it and the experience and reputation to make it meaningful.
I also didn't raise the issue of the STI drivetrain being easier to setup. I simply said that the two systems are about on par as far as driver input is concerned (ie. how difficult it is to change the settings).
How does not being able to handle 500 whp make a clear winner? You're naive if you think the evo can actually handle 500 whp on stock internals for long. Moreover, as I said before, 99% of people will never run that kind of power. A 500 whp car is insane both in the power it makes and the maintenance it requires. We're not talking about simple bolt-ons, we're talking about turbo swaps. Hell, there are STIs running with 500 whp as well.
Oddly enough, it seems I'm not the misinformed one since I've actually listened to what the tuners are saying.
Where did I say the Evo X won't hold more power than the STI? You are making assumptions again.
AMS actually said that the STI responds better to mods, not me. They also have the dynos to prove it and the experience and reputation to make it meaningful.
I also didn't raise the issue of the STI drivetrain being easier to setup. I simply said that the two systems are about on par as far as driver input is concerned (ie. how difficult it is to change the settings).
How does not being able to handle 500 whp make a clear winner? You're naive if you think the evo can actually handle 500 whp on stock internals for long. Moreover, as I said before, 99% of people will never run that kind of power. A 500 whp car is insane both in the power it makes and the maintenance it requires. We're not talking about simple bolt-ons, we're talking about turbo swaps. Hell, there are STIs running with 500 whp as well.
Oddly enough, it seems I'm not the misinformed one since I've actually listened to what the tuners are saying.
well i'm naive certainly from your point of view, since you are on the side where the engine can't hold 430 whp never mind 500 whp on stock internals.
show me the STI 2.5 l bone stock engine with 500 whp.
Also the turbo is bolt on, not engine internal modification. Now you twisting it again.
How do you know the maintanence in the evo? I know STI running on 500 whp or over... but they are far away from stock internals, never mind the money cost to do the job on them.. More refference about me ask Andy or Weasel 555 from Subi forum if you know him.
/you can find him :
i-club.com
clubwrx.net
And maybe will clear some miss understanding about me...
You are a naive if the AMS will release the kit without internal engine mods, only bolt ons/as they stated/
and you think only 1% of evo owners will by that.
You will see a hell of a lot evo x running over 400-500 whp .
ANd they are a lots of fun to drive..
Last edited by Robevo RS; Aug 25, 2008 at 10:20 AM.
i explain it for you 100 times already , when one stock engine can achieve more hp then the other with bolt ons only, that stock engine is a better engine for mods. What is so hard to understand about that?
well i'm naive certainly from your point of view, since you are on the side where the engine can't hold 430 whp never mind 500 whp on stock internals.
show me the STI 2.5 l bone stock engine with 500 whp.
Also the turbo is bolt on, not engine internal modification. Now you twisting it again.
How do you know the maintanence in the evo?
You are a naive if the AMS will release the kit without internal engine mods, only bolt ons/as they stated/
and you think only 1% of evo owners will by that.
You will see a hell of a lot evo x running over 400-500 whp .
ANd they are a lots of fun to drive..
well i'm naive certainly from your point of view, since you are on the side where the engine can't hold 430 whp never mind 500 whp on stock internals.
show me the STI 2.5 l bone stock engine with 500 whp.
Also the turbo is bolt on, not engine internal modification. Now you twisting it again.
How do you know the maintanence in the evo?
You are a naive if the AMS will release the kit without internal engine mods, only bolt ons/as they stated/
and you think only 1% of evo owners will by that.
You will see a hell of a lot evo x running over 400-500 whp .
ANd they are a lots of fun to drive..
As AMS has shown, the STI responds very well to bolt-ons. For less money, they saw more power than an Evo IX with bolt-ons. While I wouldn't go so far as to say the STI is better, it's clearly a competitor.
You are naive, I don't know of a single Evo running that kind of power on a regular basis without internal mods. Could it do it for a short time? Sure, the motor is very strong but 500whp is more than double the stock power. Eventually, something will blow whether it's the rods snapping or the pistons breaking into pieces.
Considering there are very few 500 whp Evo VIIIs and IXs, you won't see a lot of Evo Xs running that power, especially the MRs.